I Believe it is WRONG to Kick Winners Out!!

SquareSucker · Sep 19, 2000

Shrink,
Are you bi-polar? Paranoid schizophrenic? Or just merely a well-remunerated hypocrite. (Those are rhetorical questions; don't bother replying about how mad you are that someone would question your mental wellness. . . just making a point.)

On the one hand you are nobly taking up the cause against shoemakers who kick out winners. On the other hand, I get in the mail today a letter of endorsement (on Prescription stationery!) for the biggest winner-chaser of all, NASA.

Your praise for them is effusive and effective -- and, as almost any of the sophisticated posters on this board know, totally misplaced. The guy who runs the joint, Mr. **** ******, who you helpfully asterisk every time someone types it on this board, is a well-known crook. And whenever someone mentions how he has absconded with money or cancelled bets or frozen accounts, in the name of "fairness" you delete their post. ("Change" is your latest victim.) And now this! A letter of recommendation!

It is WRONG for bookmakers to kick out winners.

And it is WRONG for the trusted owner of a "Watchdog" site to keep touting this sleazy operation that most definitely does NOT want educated gamblers playing with them.

Do the people who believe in you a favor: cut the crap!

Samurai · May 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by THE SHRINK:
Beginning next week, we will start listing the sports books who make a PATTERN of tossing players merely because they WIN.

I believe it is our obligation to let the PLAYERS know IN ADVANCE about which sports books behave in this manner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Where on this site can I find this list of sportsbooks who make a pattern of tossing players merely because they win?

This is a great idea, and would save me a lot of wasted time and effort spent trying to get straight answers from books and their many shills that populate this forum.

PanchoSanza · May 21, 2003

Add five card charlie to the list.

They always have the Yankees 20 cents worse than anyone else and I had the audacity to bet the dog a few times and they tossed me.

These guys are an insult to real bookmakers.

DickyW · May 21, 2003

Sam
Did you Email Mr. Alistair? Yeah yeah I know this is a public forum. When real men want answers to questions they go directly to the source and ask them. If your not able to show proof that VIP lied and decieved customers and your to chicken shit to email Alistair at least apologize.

StoneCold+ · May 21, 2003

Originally posted by THE SHRINK:
Beginning next week, we will start listing the sports books who make a PATTERN of tossing players merely because they WIN.

I believe it is our obligation to let the PLAYERS know IN ADVANCE about which sports books behave in this manner.

HALF THE BOOKS THAT ADVERTISE HERE, TOSS OR LIMIT WINNERS

Samurai · May 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DickyW:
Yeah yeah I know this is a public forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Apparently you are having quite a difficult time grasping that simple concept.

As I said in the thread you should have posted this comment in (unless your plan is to stalk me), there's no need to contact Alistair privately, and there's certainly no reason for Alistair to duck my direct question if he has any desire to be open and honest about VIP's policy regarding winners.

This is a public forum, and this issue is being discussed publicly. There is no reason to take it private, as so many books attempt to do when they think it will help them avoid embarrassing issues.

If you're so concerned about proof, and you have nothing better to do than to continue offering unwanted, unsolicited, useless advice, then I suggest you spend some time proving the insinuation/allegation you made in that other thread.

TTinCO · May 21, 2003

Rather than booting players, I have heard of some (SIA) who make the "soft boot" by limiting the players to $20 per play (Yes, 20 f'ing dollars).

In cases like that, there is no difference between being booted or limited.

SPIVE · May 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If anyone reading this can furnish us with PROOF that they have been TOSSED merely because they WIN without being limited, please email shrink@theprescription.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally know more than a dozen individuals who have received the following notification from Sports Interaction (SIA).

I regret to inform you that it has been decided by the management to close out your account. I am sure you realise that it is not profitable for us to maintain accounts that are winning large amounts.

Obviously your account falls into this category.

Any outstanding bets will of course be honoured and we will be returning your balance to you shortly. You will still be able to access your account to monitor your current bets so you can let us know if they are successful. Once again I am sorry for the inconvenience this causes you and I wish you all the best in your betting elsewhere.

Regards,
Owen
SIA

"Bookmakers who don't welcome winner$, don't deserve losers." -SPIVE

Buzzsaw · May 22, 2003

Sam,
I'm glad to see you researched the world over looking for that lie

But all the way back to 2000?

I'll give you credit, you sure tried to find the goods. They just were not there to find.

THE SHRINK · May 22, 2003

Does someone want to start a NEW thread on Sports Books who will TOSS gamblers out for winning?

There are also many books who don't toss people out, but rather, they LIMIT winning gamblers...

CANBET immediately comes to mind when it comes to limiting...

Oh and yes Buzzsaw, they advertise here, too...

As well as a bunch of others...

THE SHRINK

PanchoSanza · May 22, 2003

Good Idea.

I think the distinction should be made between winning by playing line moves as opposed to winning by making your own plays.

seawave · May 22, 2003

When gambling shops advertise, the message they want you to hear is "You could win big at this place!" That is why they list jackpot winners to lure more players.
Therefore, it is foundamentally wrong to boot winners.
So, the places that boot winners should put this in their banner:
"This is a place where you could win! (in small print

only a little"

VG789 · May 22, 2003

fact is that bookies who boot winners DO PAY lol!
I believe that 80% of the bookies out there will boot or most probably will reduce the upper betting limit of a winner,so I dont think its a lot to be discussed about it,thats how the industry works so far,and since most punters are 10-100$ bettors,they ll probably never bother about it even if they have very high percentage of winning(something that is not very possible of course).

SPIVE · May 22, 2003

Perhaps a better distinction would be to categorize shops as Professional or Sucker.

Discussing the differences in the meantime, to develop the criteria between the two.

Example:

PRO:

High Limits. (3-Dimes or more)
Don't Boot.
No Reduced Limits below $1000.
Low Straddles. e.g. 10-cents or less in bases.
Fast Pay.
Minimum of 3 years of "active" service.

SUCKER:

Low Limits (Less than 3-Dimes)
Boot
Wide Straddles e.g. 20-cent or more in bases.
Slow or No Pay.
Less than 3 years of service.

Buzzsaw · May 22, 2003

The greed factor can not be ignored. It happens on both sides.

It amazes me that sharp players will complain that they were tossed from recreational books like Canbet, SportsInteraction, VIP, Intertops and the list goes on. And that's just for starters, they routinely play into weak books knowing full well they are taking a great risk.

Of course the sharps know good and well they can play forever at CRIS, Pinnacle, Grande, Olympic and the list goes on here too. No chance at ever getting the boot at these books.

So why don't they just stick to the books that specalize/ welcome their business? GREED. They know the sharp shops who won't boot them have almost no bonuses and razor sharp lines. Instead of working harder in the books that welcome their business they venture into books that don't want their business hoping to scalp through the bonus rollover before they are caught.

How many times have we seen sharp players lose money in books they KNEW for a fact were shady? It happens all the time because sharp players are willing to accept the risk for some easy money.

Sharp books like Pinnacle, CRIS and Grande will never give big bonuses and they force the sharpie to really work at making a profit. Unfortunately some sharps can not resist the temptation of playing where they are not wanted in the hopes of scooping some easy money before their pattern is detected and they are booted.

The fact is all sportsbooks DO NOT have the same business model. Books that give away heavy bonuses will either limit sharp action or will fail. No two ways about it.

lander · May 22, 2003

Add five card charlie to the list.

They always have the Yankees 20 cents worse than anyone else and I had the audacity to bet the dog a few times and they tossed me.

These guys are an insult to real bookmakers.

Too funny, I had the same EXACT thing happen at FairDeal (whom FCC acquired, and were later both acquired by VIP). The linesman acted like I was an asshole for betting value. His exact words were, "we don't need players like you".

Right. They'd rather have players that buy into highly inflated chalk, so FCC & FD can lay off at Pinnacle ....

.. grow a set & tell it how it realllly is.

marc · May 22, 2003

I understand the logic of booting steam chasers. In that case the book will not have the opportunity to balance the action and make their vig. At best a book can hope to break even on a steam chaser. But if someone is giving you action with more than enough time for you to try to balance your action, it makes no sense to boot that person. If you think the guy is truly sharp, ask yourself how much am I losing to this guy, versus how much would I pay for his information.

IMO, rather than boot winners, why not consider booting your linesmen.

JudgeWapner · May 22, 2003

I just kicked out every player I have.I figure I'll save money on the phone bill.

max1234 · May 22, 2003

Judge,

That's why you're my hero.... always looking at the bottom line!

BTW... just had three Krispy Kreme's for breakfast. HMMMMMM, HMMMMM good. Does anyone next day to CR?

JudgeWapner · May 22, 2003

Max,you MF.That's allright dude.I'll be back in the States in two weeks.My diet will consist of Krispy Kremes and cannolis.Max getting to be slow season,think you are due for a trip down.Any time in July or August would work.