Howard Stern not worried about subpoenas - ?? For Shrink

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WildBill:
Another day, another poster who knows nothing about the law spreading lies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I assume that wasn't directed at me. But since you attacked me before without cause, I feel compelled to confirm.
 

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Why did you say this then Lou? You obviously don't know what is legal and illegal. Its wreckless to be the latest person to make some off-hand comment about it being illegal when there are no laws against it. I say this because there are so many people here that are saying things that just aren't true and its getting the people here scared left and right. If there were truly legal issues and people had reason to be concerned then fine, state it, but for you and anyone else that wants to keep saying that there are federal laws against this when clearly there are not is wrong. Pure and simple. That isn't an attack, its calling you out and asking you to stop spreading lies.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WildBill:
Why did you say this then Lou? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because I invested thousands in legal advice from the one of the most recognized and respected gaming attorneys in the world.

Why would you challenge it, when you haven't done the research on EXACTLY what my claim was?

Btw, are you an attorney, or a wannabe attorney?
 

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[This message was edited by Dante on October 04, 2003 at 08:32 PM.]
 

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Is the following ad illegal??

MASSAGE RELIEF
BLONDE 5'10" 127 LBS
Finnish/Italian
Natural 38D
Incall/Outcall $150

NO!!

IMO, this ends this discussion.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Major:
Lou, you dont have thousands. Please stop with this silliness<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dante,
Don't move this thread. It's important. Major's frustrated because he went on stage and stuck his foot in his mouth again...
 

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I'm with Lou on this the guy Russell from the DOJ said there was nothing they could do about offshore gambling because it was outside US jurisdiction. This quote has been used widely in internet gambling defense and was used by Cohen in his trial. Its the main reason so many people used their real names at the start.

They will use all kinds of threats to get the information they want and they will tell the people they have subpoened not to open their mouths about this or face obstruction of justice charges. This is why the source of this article wants to stay anonymous.

Whats really unbelievable is that someone wants to move this thread its got great info in it. Dante you would make a great govt. employee. Power hungry, overzelous and a hater of freedom. With qualifications like that they would probably hire you without a background check. Good luck.
 

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Lou go tell your high priced lawyer then that he flat out ripped you off. I am not joking. There is no federal law on gambling, none. The only piece of legislation that ever passed was the Wire Act and it merely covered communicating bets, not even betting information. To advertise an offshore book is about 3 steps below this. To say "hey call this number and find out about betting offshore" doesn't do much beyond give information. It doesn't give betting information and it doesn't solicit a bet either. The lawyer might have told you many things, but the legal truth he did not. The Feds will not pass a law on gambling because its a state's right and obligation to do that. Now if an individual state is making noise about it, they have a better standing, but still advertising is protected free speech, especially when there is no outright solicitation to a crime.

I am not a lawyer nor want to be one, but I sat in a 3 hour "training" covering this very topic with some of the lobby working against Kyl and his cronies. These facts are quite important because one of the defenses they are using is that states need their rights defended. If the states rights issue is upheld then the bill that passes would have to be extremely narrow and very weak in terms of what it can stop.
 

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"To say "hey call this number and find out about betting offshore" doesn't do much beyond give information."

Apples and oranges. If that number sends them to *a* book, you're at risk.

If that number sends you to an operator and gives you a *list of rated books* and provides info about offshore wagering, you're ok.


The latter is an extremely ineffective method for books to spend their advertising $$ and very rarely used, if at all.

Would you like the attorney's info to confirm with him?
 

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Please tell me about him Lou. I just want to know when I shame this guy into giving you a refund, will I get a cut of it???

As for your comment, when you call the 800 number you never get to a betting line, you go to marketing. At that point you sign up and send money. Then you get a number to call to bet. At no point is the radio station telling you to even sign up with these guys, nor do they play a role in encouraging a bet. If you could get a judge to say this was illegal then I will name a judge that is either on the take or jealous and wants to be working for Bush. There is no way this could be determined to be illegal Lou, NONE! I am not out to take a shot at you, I am just trying to point out how far-fetched the argument is that this legal help advised you on. An ad on a radio show or in a magazine is no more enticement and encouragement of an illegal act than 60 minutes doing a story with interviews with WSEX.

To repeat, there are no federal laws against wagering, there is Supreme Court precedent saying gambling ads are protected free speech even in states with no gambling, and you have the simple fact that allowing someone to advertise a phone number which gets you to a marketing person in a sports book is most definitely not a crime. I keep saying this because this site gets so many lurkers and people that would get involved offshore, but are scared off by false statements. If you are afraid of this process the DOJ undertakes or if you fear for the safety of your money offshore, fine don't get involved. However, don't stay out of the business because people throw around false statements about the law.
 

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In June 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the advertising restriction on the commercial casino industry in its decision in the case Greater New Orleans Broadcast Association v. United States. Until then, the Communications Act of 1934 had prohibited all television ads that showed gambling activity by commercial casinos.

Until there is a Federal Law making foreign casinos/sportsbooks illegal (which they can never do) advertising will be protected by the first admendment. Missouri is just on a fact gathering witch-hunt. Missouri was the 1st or 2nd state (minnesota the other) to go after Kerry Rogers and the offshore industry and are agressive about "protecting" their residents from the evil of sports betting. Their boats is St. Louis are protected though.
 

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Bill,
You can have it all.

I said print, wire and a % from a book were no-no's.

I was STRONGLY advised not to take print *ads* for my newspaper, or run sportsbook *ads* via the tv or scorephones.

Look at it this way. If Pablo Escobar were to pay you to advertise that has the best cocaine in the biz, and you advertised his phone number to connect with him. Than he proceeded to send those drugs to the states. Do you think Pablo would be the only one going to jail?

Post an e-mail. I will give you the attorney info and you can report back your findings.
 

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[This message was edited by Dante on October 04, 2003 at 08:33 PM.]
 

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Dante this is a great thread and you are wrong for sticking your nose in threatening to move it. Please get a life and leave us alone.

Here is another article with more info from Nasa:

Crackdown on I-Gaming Ads - Not Everyone's Flinching
by Kevin Smith

The I-gaming industry has been relatively quiet about recent actions taken by a U.S. attorney against online gambling advertisers, but those who are speaking say the case doesn't hold very much merit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I doubt Elliot (Spitzer) has ever ridden on a city bus before. He is more than welcome to come on a BetOnSports bus, and we can discuss the issue further."
- David Carruthers
BetOnSports.com
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Costa Rican online sports book BetOnSports.com has been one of the most aggressive offshore bookmakers when it comes to advertising through the mainstream U.S. media. The group's CEO, David Carruthers, said the grand jury investigation in the Eastern District of Missouri has affected their operation only slightly.

Interactive Gaming News on Tuesday obtained a copy of a subpoena issued to a portal owner who accepts advertising for online casinos and sports books.

The scope of the investigation remains unknown, but as details trickle in, it appears the federal government is trying to gather as much information about the interactive gambling industry as possible.

By Carruthers' account, authorities appear to be targeting media outlets as well. Five radio stations, two in Missouri and three in the state of Washington, he said, have pulled advertisements for BetOnSports.

"They were relatively small stations," he said of the stations that pulled the ads. "They decided to stop running them after unsolicited and unwarranted contact from various law enforcement officials."

Whether the five stations' decisions to pull I-gaming ads were related to the grand jury investigation isn't known.

What is known is that BetOnSports will continue to advertise its services in the United States, and Carruthers, who referred to pressure from the justice department as "scare tactics," said the First Amendment gives them right to do so.

BetOnSports still has a network of more than 300 U.S. radio stations and a handful of national media outlets through which it advertises its services.

"I am very pleased to say it is business as usual," Carruthers said. "All of our national advertisers, including Howard Stern, Jim Rome and Lycos, are behind us 100 percent."

News of the grand jury investigation came the same week BoS announced a deal with the Transportation Authority in New York through which 250 New York City buses will carry advertisements for the site this month.

The deal might be the boldest yet for BoS, considering Elliot Spitzer, the attorney general of New York, has a track record for going after businesses that facilitate interactive gambling.

Carruthers said BoS is spending $4 million to market its site in the New York area alone this year and expects the marketing to pay off in big numbers with new users.

"I doubt Elliot has ever ridden on a city bus before," he said. "He is more than welcome to come on a BetOnSports bus, and we can discuss the issue further."


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"This is just a big fishing expedition, and they know it. Advertising doesn't constitute aiding and abetting and it never has."
- Martin Owens
Attorney at Law
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Martin Owens, a lawyer who represents I-gaming clients, said the U.S. attorney in Missouri has no legal grounds to go after I-gaming advertisers .

"This is just a big fishing expedition, and they know it," he said. "Advertising doesn't constitute aiding and abetting and it never has."

Owens cited a U.S. Supreme Court case from 1999 that he said should clear any doubt as to whether gambling sites can advertise in the United States. The court ruled in Greater New Orleans vs. the U.S. that a state couldn't block gambling advertisements if gambling is legal in the state the operator is located.

"If gambling is legal in New Orleans, you are free to advertise it in Texas," he said. "(Therefore), if online gambling is legal in Costa Rica or Antigua, then you can advertise it anywhere in the states you want."

The subpoena, issued by the United States District Court in the Eastern District of Missouri, asks the operator to turn over all commercial and financial information from Jan. 1, 1997 to the present related to the advertisement of online casinos and sports books.

Among information requested in the subpoena is all the "names and all identifying and contact information you have for every point of contact for each such gambling advertiser."

The subpoena also calls for the turning over of any information about advertisements placed on TV, radio or cablecasts. The court asks for any accounting records including accounts receivable or accounts payable. They also ask the portal to turn over records of sales calls, telephone records, contracts, invoices, records of negotiations pertaining to payment, e-mail correspondence (both incoming and outgoing), financial transactions, annual gross revenue for the site, information on how advertising revenue was received and the names of financial institutions and account numbers pertaining to the business.

Owens feels the grand jury investigation is the latest ploy on behalf of a political administration that would like to see online gambling outlawed, but can't effectively figure out a way to do it.

"If you don't like the cards that are dealt to you, kick over the table," he said. "And if you can't shoot down the eagles shoot down the sparrows."
 

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I think what Lou (or his attorney) is trying to say is that the federal government is infamous for its creative use of existing laws.

The legal community was split on Cohen at first even a DOJ spokesperson said offshore gambling was outside the DOJ jurisdiction. Now, no one is willing to say the Wire Act doesn't apply because basically the DOJ said it was illegal and got a conviction. End of story and the same thing could happen here. If you've ever read the conspiracy statutes (more than 2 people, overt acts, etc) then by the letter of the law these ad venues are probably guilty of consipiracy, aiding and abetting and whatever else the G-man can dream up.

Its obvious the target of this is not the advertising venues but to think said venues are immune from harassment is like believing in the tooth fairy only worse.
 

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Also why does sting continually lie about college football news and the links they put up. See for yourself if they stopped running advertising and banners.

Mysterious Missing Ads
 

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Lester,
Why do you suppose Washington is wasting our money to pursue such petty and frivilous results?
 

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Dante this would have been a better thread had you never posted in it. If you want to atone for your sins go back and edit every post you made by making them blank. Its the right thing to do. This is the best thread around here in months and you had to stick your beak in.

Lander I saw somewhere it costs $200,000 for the average FBI investigation. As long as they can keep making asset forfeitures in the 7 figures they aren't going to stop. Even in the Gold Medal case they made the defendants sell the sportsbook (to the sportbet group) and that money went straight to the Treasury Dept. They didn't make them shut it down, they made them sell it knowing full well it would continue to operate. Selling it and taking the money instead of shutting it down was more profitable to the govt. Maybe Jake from sportsbet can tell us more.

Its like anything else in life if you can't explain someone's motivation for an action in one sentence with less than 7 words then the answer is is "its the money".
 

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THERE you go Lester... ANYTHING to make you happy all gone
1036316054.gif
 

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