HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE THIS SITUATION ??? --- I AM IN AN ETHICAL BIND

wilheim · Jan 28, 2004

My point is nothing is SURE lets say the last minute went:

1:31 NC Jawad Williams missed Jump Shot, Blocked by Donte Minter
1:24 NC Offensive Rebound by Jackie Manuel
1:07 NC Jackie Manuel made 3 Pt. basket.
57.0 VA Elton Brown made lay-up.
47.0 VA 3-second violation turnover on Todd Billet
26.0 NC Raymond Felton Made 3 Pt. basket.
8.0 VA Elton Brown made Layup, Assist Todd Billet
2.0 NC - John Smith made lay-up.

Don't tell me it could not happen because it easily could.

wil.

AnotherAnon · Jan 28, 2004

Here's good line...tonight at Jamaica for First Half:

Wed 1/28 719 Mavericks Dallas -2 -110 O: 87 -110
09:05PM 720 Jazz Utah +2 -110 U: 87 -110

A little while later after it's fixed:

Wed 1/28 719 Mavericks Dallas -2 -110 O: 97 -110
09:05PM 720 Jazz Utah +2 -110 U: 97 -110

The total was only off 2-3 pts, so we shoulda hammered it, right? ;-)

wilheim · Jan 28, 2004

AA I quess there are some people who post here that think it is OK.

wil.

DannyMay · Jan 30, 2004

I am going to let this issue die, because I DID get my money. I have only one last thing to say about it.

I saw a line posted and I bet it. The line WAS NOT cancelled until it because very clear my play was a winner. The email was sent to me at 1242 - nearly 2 hours after my bet was placed and nearly 45 minutes after the game started. I bet a line which could very well have LOST. It is a simple as that. Therefore, I deserve to be paid. Regardless of what people say, I scalp and middle and therefore I am looking for the biggest discrepency I can find. They hang a line and I bet it. That is how this game works. I am not their linesmaker. Right now, this very book in question has plays up which have NO CHANCE OF WINNING. NONE -- 0% --- IMPOSSIBLE. If a player bets these lines -- they will get a LOSS. The player will not be able to back out by saying " damn, I made a bad bet. I didnt realize that it couldnt win". The book will say - we hung the line, and you bet it. Sorry, you lose. Therefore, I say that the same should apply the other way. They hung the line, I bet it and the bet stood until 1242. That makes it a good bet. It has to stand.

You have to keep in mind that wilhelm, Fishhead, generla, lander and others are being paid indirectly by this book. They are not viewing this from an objective viewpoint. These advertisers pay their salaries indirectly.

Now, I know this will likely result in another 50 posts in this thread. I have made my position known, and I am done responding here.

DannyMay · Jan 30, 2004

by the way,

currently available for betting

What will the first score of the game be

Touchdown -140
Field Goal -110
NO SCORE IN THE GAME + 10,000

I would like to see someone wait until 1 minute is left and then try to get a NO SCORE IN GAME bet cancelled, seeing as how it cant possibly win.

NickDouglas · Jan 30, 2004

You are not a person who "sees a line and bets it". You are a lowlife who bets bad lines, expects to be paid on them, steals money on withdrawl errors in your favor and then posts a totally misleading sob story in the forums. You have no ethical dilemmas because you have no ethics.

wilheim · Jan 30, 2004

Speaking for myself, a long-time sports bettor, not a moderator with an agenda. What danny may did was just like stealing. He knew for a fact that the line for the 1st. half he bet under 88.5 was 10 points off. This is indisputable. You can also be certain he bet over 78 or 78.5 at some other out. We have already shown how with one minute to play the total of 88.5 still could have gone over, making his contention that the bet could'nt win when he supposedely got the EM a lie. Bottom line is that danny may is a scammer and liar.

wil.

batistuta · Jan 30, 2004

Dannymay - I have read every word of this thread.

One question you keep avoiding:

IF THE LINE WAS 88 AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 78 - HOW IS THAT 3 to 3.5 POINTS?? DID YOU MISLEAD EVERYONE?

you seem very dishonest with this statement

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Speaking for myself, a long-time sports bettor, not a moderator with an agenda. What danny may did was just like stealing. He knew for a fact that the line for the 1st. half he bet under 88.5 was 10 points off. This is indisputable. You can also be certain he bet over 78 or 78.5 at some other out. We have already shown how with one minute to play the total of 88.5 still could have gone over, making his contention that the bet could'nt win when he supposedely got the EM a lie. Bottom line is that danny may is a scammer and liar.

wil. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow, I have read every word of this thread & i consider myself to be a fair & neutral party...wil I have also read many of your posts, I also feel that you are very fair & neutral, however I fell you quote above is very harsh...

perhaps Danny shyed away slightly from the truth when he said the line was 3.5 points off but lets all think of this...first of all he posted his issue here for resolution even though he had most of the $$$ in his hand...

secondly he is right when he says that books will often post lines that have zero chance of winning...& wait for suckers to bet them...they are far from saints...(DID ANYBODY FOLLOW SURVIVOR BETTING DURING THE LAST SURVIVOR SERIES AT INTERTOPS?), If you did you would know what I mean.

nobody is holding intertops accountable for not cancelling before the game? come on guys...that is completely unfair...regardless of what Danny May was doing.

WHY DIDNT INTERTOPS CALL HIM ON THE PHONE FOR GOD SAKE's they have his phone number dont they?

I have never been to Vegas...but what would happen if a large sportsbook printed a ticket with a bad # on it & the tourist left the hotel? They would honour it woudnt they? what is the difference here...

from what I have read the only thing this guy may be guilty of is not being completely honest with us about the 3.5 difference in the line.

This is a ruthless business guys...do you think these books care about us when we make mistakes?

I have had an account at intertops for a long time...& I love them...

Once however I accidentally made a bad mistake at intertops & bet the limit on a game by mistake. I called them & do to their police they would not cancel the bet even though I had been a cx for many many years....I decided to say phuck it & logged back in to bet the other side (accepting I would lose the 10% juice)...The system woudnt let me bet the other side as I had already bet the limit on the one side.

I called the Book...explained I was willing to bet the other side & lose the juice due to my mistake....THEY WOUDNT LET ME...can you beleive that? Even after escelating to management they made me keep the bet. (& NO THE LINE HADNT CHANGED...) This was INTERTOPS...now as I said, I love them & have used them for years...& still use them, in fact I posted a foavorable report on them just the other day...but before you guys paint danny as a thief & have your butts so far up the heads of the books...remember, they are also ruthless & will phuck you any chance they get.

wilheim · Feb 6, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>perhaps Danny shyed away slightly from the truth when he said the line was 3.5 points off but lets all think of this...first of all he posted his issue here for resolution even though he had most of the $$$ in his hand... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ten points off is not any where near slightly. If you can't see what happened here then you have my sympathy. If you do understand what happened here and approve then IMO. you are no better than DM yourself.

wil.

Jazz · Feb 6, 2004

I just saw this topic - I agree with Wilheim and others about these points:

(1) Danny, not stupid by any stretch of the imagination and a known middler (as I am), knowingly bet a 'bad' line.

(2) Danny then lied on purpose in this topic about the '3 to 3.5 point difference' so he could garner support for his case and put pressure on the book - Danny will not address the question of why the line was indisputably 10 pts off, not 3 to 3.5

And DM had the nerve to post an 'ethical' question??? I refuse to address the question of whether Intertops should have paid or not - screw that, Danny has shown here he is simply not ethical himself. I don't believe in karma myself, but when you come into the forum lying on purpose to get what you want, I am completely disinterested in the outcome.

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Danny has shown here he is simply not ethical himself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is fine...I am not trying to defend him...I am simply talking about the need for Ethics in any business...how can they not call...email or do anything in a timely fashion?

But one thing strikes me as odd...if he had the money in his pocket why would he care? he posted here....the facts....wether or not he knew it was an off line to me is irrelevant...most are not as schooled as we are in to the ethics of betting...& we need to make a standard rule...what if it was a square making an honest mistake? & beleive you me I bet there are tons of customers who logged in & bet into a bad number having faith in their only out. Come on. Now do you honestly beleive that the books are doing the right thing in these cases each & every time. "I have some good news for you...your bet lost but since you bet into a bad line here is your money back"....how often do you think that conversation takes place?

In Ottawa where I live there is a policy in the grocery stores...if the item scans incorrectly you get it free...

What would happen if it was a large vegas book that printed a betting slip? what would the nevada gaming commission say? just curious?

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Bottom line is that danny may is a scammer and liar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> you are no better than DM yourself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

im suprised...ur comments are of an insulting nature that im not accustomed to of you...I find it really hard to beleive those spewing their ethics all of these threads...personally...I beleive it is simply politics & I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise.

Jazz · Feb 6, 2004

Savant, I have no idea why he did so, unless he was trying to STAY at Intertops, which is a very nice book to be in (until they limit you - lol). But the fact appears indisputable that DM did lie - you'll have to ask him why he bothered to post this topic, in fact I'm surprised he bothered since the truth was eventually going to come out anyway.

Being a middler, and one with a sense of ethics, I will never hit a line that bad - any middler would have recognized it instantly, even a casual one. But DM whacked it, and yeah, he may have middled it but probably a smarter move would have been not to cover it, just take it straight, so if the book cancelled it if it was a winner you wouldn't be left with a loser at another book.

However, I think DM outsmarted himself here - Intertops now knows the story about his style of betting because of this topic (if they didn't know before), and they know he doesn't mind whacking bad lines, and if he isn't already limited to a max of $550 or less, he probably soon will be.

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

why is it ok for a book or a casino to take advantage of an 'unseasoned' gambler, but it is not ok for a gambler to take advantage of an 'unseaseoned book' (or one tht simply made a mistake?).

Jazz · Feb 6, 2004

Savant: none of what I said was directed at anything you posted. I'm simply pointing out that Danny lied purposely to appear more sympathetic. Personally, I've see the same argument far too many times here to care to respond any longer with respect to the book - 'if they post it they should honor it' and the other side - that's why I'm not speaking to it. Same goes for the scanning of a wrong price by a store - by the letter of the law you would be right, but if that happens in a small business and the price is 1/10th the actual price, are you really going to screw the place?? THAT'S 'ethics' versus 'law'.

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

I hear you Jazz...& that is quite commendable. But who is policing the Bookie? that is all I am trying to get at...do you beleive with all your heart that they refunded any over bettors...perhaps they did...but even so...would all bookies do it in every case?

How do you feel this would be handled in Vegas from a large Casino...Bet cancelled with a minute left...seems ridiculous... Or maybe they would? I dont know?

Jazz · Feb 6, 2004

No, I have reported college totals posted at about 120 when they should have been 165. Give me a reasonable margin and I'll middle it, but I'm not going to slink around on my hands and knees just waiting for a clerk to post a bad number so I can ram it up their ass.

Anyhow, time to go - later

SportSavant · Feb 6, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> but if that happens in a small business and the price is 1/10th the actual price, are you really going to screw the place?? THAT'S 'ethics' versus 'law'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very good analogy...interesting...oddly enough I would more likely demand the large corporation honour their mistake (however if it was an expensive item...reasonableness takes over) but I would not hold the small shopkeeper to it ever...I would also return a wallet found full have money & have on two occasions...

Same probably holds true for a company like intertops, 365, pinnacle or my local bookie... I would be more apt to give my local a break becauz I know he has struggles...?

Jazz · Feb 6, 2004

last post tonight - really! But the only entity I can control the ethics thereof is myself - I cannot control what anyone or anything like a book does. 'Ethics' are how I face the world - when I get extra money credited to my account by mistake, I report it. I don't think twice about it, because I like who I am and I'm not interested in sacrificing that integrity for some extra cabbage.