Hasn't this fxckin asshole ever heard of excepting and teaching tolerance??

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Wednesday, Dec. 17, 2003
Anti-religious Fanatic Chirac Wants to Ban the Crucifix

Saddamite chief French quisling Jacques Chirac today asked parliament for a law banning Christian crosses, Islamic head scarves and Jewish skullcaps in all government schools.

He said he also wanted to let businesses impose the same ban, supposedly for "safety" or "customer relations."

"Secularism is one of the great successes of the republic," the anti-religious zealot said in an address to the nation. "It is a crucial element of social peace and national cohesion. We cannot let it weaken."

President Chirac said he would push for a law to be enacted in time for the school year that begins next autumn. Such censorship is likely to occur because lawmakers have voiced support for a law establishing secularism.

"For many French, the Islamic head scarf symbolizes Muslim militancy and fears that fundamentalists are making dangerous inroads in France. But Muslims say a ban is discriminatory, violates their freedoms and could provoke a backlash, pushing Muslims out of France's mainstream life. Christian and Jewish religious leaders also have voiced opposition to a law," the Associated Press reported today, focusing, like most media, on the discrimination against the Muslim minority instead of the (nominal) Christian majority.

"The question is no longer freedom of conscience but public order," a report by a 20-member presidential commission claimed last week.
 

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Sounds like separation of church and state to me. What's the problem?
 

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d2bets,

What about the separation of church and business? If a business did that, wouldn't that be discrimination? Here in the U.S., Rev. Al or Jesse or both would have a fit if someone banned the head scarf or anything a black person might wear and get persecuted.
 

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"...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof..."

Is it similar to our separation?
icon_confused.gif
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:
d2bets,

What about the separation of church and business? If a business did that, wouldn't that be discrimination? Here in the U.S., Rev. Al or Jesse or both would have a fit if someone banned the head scarf or anything a black person might wear and get persecuted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't the government should tell businesses that they can't allow customers to wear religious items. But if I'm reading this right, Chirac is not proposing that. He's saying that businesses themselves can choose to impose such a ban. I have no problem with that as long as it is uniform and doesn't discriminate one religions vs. another.

I believe religion should be a private matter and should not be endorsed by government (or insitutions run by govt, like public schools).
 

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This has been a pseudo-popular issue in Canada before, and it's making headlines again. We, of course, have no laws against anyone demonstrating religious beliefs, but Subway has denied a franchisee the right to wear a turban in any of the nine stores that he owns saying it violates uniform policy (even though there are exceptions all the time -- often enough that they actually have a standard 'exception request' form that comes with the Employer's Manual.) At any rate, the owner has received tons of public support, but is selling his stores anyway. He is very distressed.

I don't understand why anyone would give a rat's ass what someone does or does not believe in ... unless they are specifically getting right in your face (and walking by you is not in your face) then what's the problem? Live and let live.
 

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"Sounds like separation of church and state to me. What's the problem?"

Here's a bit of trivia. The phrase "separation of church and state" can be found in the constitution - the SOVIET CONSTITUTION.

That phrase is found nowhere in the US (or French)Constitution.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, 1998
 

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Actually, I have to give Chirac some credit here. At least he's trying to be consistent, he's barring ALL religious expression. American Liberals only want to ban JUDEO-CHRISTIAN religious expression, they have no problem with celebrations of Kwanza, Ramadan and other non-Judeo-Christian religions.

At least Chirac, vermin that he is, is trying to be consistent. American Liberals won't let you put up a Christmas tree in public schools or have a moment of silent prayer, but they hold extensive classroom education on understanding Islam where ALL students are forced to read the Koran...but the Bible is 100% off limits.
 

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"I don't understand why anyone would give a rat's ass what someone does or does not believe in ... unless they are specifically getting right in your face (and walking by you is not in your face) then what's the problem? Live and let live."

Exactly. EXPRESSING religion by wearing a cross, headscarf or skullcap is not "establishing religion" and the government has no business preventing the wearing of these things, even in public schools.

I would draw the line at a veil that covers one's face (like that idiot in Florida wanted to do in her drivers license photo).

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, 1998
 

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D2bets,I am a strong propnonent of seperation of church and state.But this I view as surpressing an individuals rights to express their religious beliefs.An individual wearing a religious icon doesn't seem to me to be a state sanctioned activity.
 

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Oui,Oui, the enlightned French.The problem is they are having so much problem with the influx of muslim radicals they don't know what to do...but what it is, is another backasswards form of appeasment by taking away religious symbols from muslims but they are also stripping away their own french culture.
Instead of enforcing diversity,they think they are taking the easy way out...but whats next everybody has to wear the same uniform??? Sounds like Hitler youth to me,or Red China.
Fxckin assholes don't realise that a free society includes freedom of speech and religion,but instead to appease they make the majority suffer because of a muslim minority...just like waht this country is coming to.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli:
"Sounds like separation of church and state to me. What's the problem?"

Here's a bit of trivia. The phrase "separation of church and state" can be found in the constitution - the SOVIET CONSTITUTION.

That phrase is found nowhere in the US (or French)Constitution.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, 1998<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Separation of church and state is the description of the phrase that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". That IS separation of churcn and state.
 

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Seems to be a cultural thing, no religion in state schools, and being enforced quite rigidly.

Theres 5 million muslims in France, and yet the first Muslim school in France only opened up earlier THIS year.

They were already appearing in numbers in the UK in the early 1980's. Especially for girls.
So it looks like theres been resistance to that too, backed up by the state bureaucracy.

It looks like we have a clash between an established State policy of integration, and the muslims wanting multi-culturalism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3325573.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3311485.stm
 

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"Separation of church and state is the description of the phrase that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". That IS separation of churcn and state."

Not the way I read it. I would read it as saying Congress can't FORCE all citizens to choose one religion or other (or any).

Just so you know, I am no religeous zealot. I have never attended church and probably never will. I just believe the Constitution should be interpreted AS WRITTEN.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, 1998
 

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The French are right in this case. Religion is stupid and backward and so are the fools who believe in an Invisible Cloud Being. As far as I'm concerned they should outlaw all religions.
 

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