PLEASE READ TO THE END BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS
Ok, I want to start off with saying that this is a Totally independent review of this case.
Also, please note.... that YouWager or any of their Sister sites are NOT a Sponsor at The RX.
Matter of fact I believe the last time they hung a banner here, it was something like 6 years ago.
I asked to take a look at this claim because I figured that I might be able to help a poster get paid from a Non-Sponsor book
which I have done many times before.
And because I once help someone get paid 7 years ago from the same book in question.
I made contact at YouWager with a Higher Up there ( Not a CS rep ) because some times dealing with Customer service doesn't get the job done.
We went back and forth for a couple of days but he didn't have any Solid detail's at the time because he was Traveling when I first made contact.
When he finally got to the office he said he would personally look into it for me.
Now PLEASE note that for security reasons I won't be able to post Full Detail's. Meaning there is information that details IP's
Plus other things... and the way the Sportsbooks software can supply that information.
What I can tell you, and you might not know is that a sportsbook can view your every move while navigating through their site. The software will tell them everything from when and where you sign in from, when you place a wager ... when you go to wager and decide to back out of that wager.
even the category you are looking at..
Meaning let's say you wanted to make a MLB wager, you click on MLB and it shows you the lines, but you decide let me check on the NFL lines, the software will tell the book those moves you made.
There is More, but I just Can't give out those detail's. .... I think you get the idea...
Anyway I'm not going to point fingers here but there seems to be a common ground with Multiple YouWager Accounts.
I'm not going to talk about the others, because I'm not looking to get anyone else involved. But these Multiple accounts used the same IP at one time or another to either Login , make wagers or request payouts.
Let's get into how a Bitcoin Payout is requested....
To request the payout a player logs into the account. and makes a request for a Payout. Then for bitcoin payouts the account is suspended and the player must call in from the number listed in the account before the account is un-suspended. Only at that time will the payout be approved.
This is one of the Main parts in the dispute from the Player, that and the fact the IP is not his.
* it has been known that it is very easy to spoof a phone number these days, but Not so easy to Spoof or Clone an IP
But in both cases you need to know the phone number and/or IP in order to Clone it.
It's not like someone is just going to pick a number and just give it a try.
** it's easier to Mask your IP, then to clone it
Now going back to the software that Sportsbooks uses to see your every move .... The IP that was used in these Multiple accounts was used in the Players account to Login multiple times ( doing nothing ) and to Request the payout.
It was also used to make a small change in the Contact information ( his Email )
Looking over the information and screen shots that were provided by YouWager of the Payout request and multiple logins into WVU's account, and the same IP to Place wagers in at least THREE other accounts I can confirm by the information provided to me that there was No Theft by YouWager.
Not saying there wasn't a Theft of some kind. But the Player believes it was likely done by a YouWager Clerk or something like that.
* My problem with that is a Clerk does have access to your information if they wanted to. But why go after an account that has $700+, when he can go after
an account that has $1000, $2000 or more.
Because if an employee was to do this, it's going to be a One Time chance.
Again I can not provide Full Detail's on everything in this case. But Here's where I have to side with the Book.
The account in question used an IP for the Payout request that was also used to Log into the account in the past.
And to login and make Wagers on other accounts
*** A common ground with at least Three of these accounts are that they are Forum Members
So I feel that the Theft in question was NOT made by an employee at YouWager, but from another source.
I did feel that YouWagers way of dealing with Payouts should be changed, and they have told me that they already have made some changes and that they would look into Futures changes as well.
*****************************************************************************************************************************
The Good News is that we have come up with solution of some kind ... as they are willing to give the Player a $700 Bonus Play for his trouble.
The Terms are as followed :
The Freeplay has a regular rollover on it like it was given to him on a deposit.
He needs to change both passwords, login and payout. They must be different.
If he wants a payout he needs to submit via email from the email in his account and they still may make him call in to verify.
Is it probably what the Player was looking for ? NO
But I believe it's fair and better than he was offered from another Forum... which was Nothing.
Now if he wants to accept the offer for himself or Give it away in a Contest or whatever, That's Totally Up to Him
Ok, I want to start off with saying that this is a Totally independent review of this case.
Also, please note.... that YouWager or any of their Sister sites are NOT a Sponsor at The RX.
Matter of fact I believe the last time they hung a banner here, it was something like 6 years ago.
I asked to take a look at this claim because I figured that I might be able to help a poster get paid from a Non-Sponsor book
which I have done many times before.
And because I once help someone get paid 7 years ago from the same book in question.
I made contact at YouWager with a Higher Up there ( Not a CS rep ) because some times dealing with Customer service doesn't get the job done.
We went back and forth for a couple of days but he didn't have any Solid detail's at the time because he was Traveling when I first made contact.
When he finally got to the office he said he would personally look into it for me.
Now PLEASE note that for security reasons I won't be able to post Full Detail's. Meaning there is information that details IP's
Plus other things... and the way the Sportsbooks software can supply that information.
What I can tell you, and you might not know is that a sportsbook can view your every move while navigating through their site. The software will tell them everything from when and where you sign in from, when you place a wager ... when you go to wager and decide to back out of that wager.
even the category you are looking at..
Meaning let's say you wanted to make a MLB wager, you click on MLB and it shows you the lines, but you decide let me check on the NFL lines, the software will tell the book those moves you made.
There is More, but I just Can't give out those detail's. .... I think you get the idea...
Anyway I'm not going to point fingers here but there seems to be a common ground with Multiple YouWager Accounts.
I'm not going to talk about the others, because I'm not looking to get anyone else involved. But these Multiple accounts used the same IP at one time or another to either Login , make wagers or request payouts.
Let's get into how a Bitcoin Payout is requested....
To request the payout a player logs into the account. and makes a request for a Payout. Then for bitcoin payouts the account is suspended and the player must call in from the number listed in the account before the account is un-suspended. Only at that time will the payout be approved.
This is one of the Main parts in the dispute from the Player, that and the fact the IP is not his.
* it has been known that it is very easy to spoof a phone number these days, but Not so easy to Spoof or Clone an IP
But in both cases you need to know the phone number and/or IP in order to Clone it.
It's not like someone is just going to pick a number and just give it a try.
** it's easier to Mask your IP, then to clone it
Now going back to the software that Sportsbooks uses to see your every move .... The IP that was used in these Multiple accounts was used in the Players account to Login multiple times ( doing nothing ) and to Request the payout.
It was also used to make a small change in the Contact information ( his Email )
Looking over the information and screen shots that were provided by YouWager of the Payout request and multiple logins into WVU's account, and the same IP to Place wagers in at least THREE other accounts I can confirm by the information provided to me that there was No Theft by YouWager.
Not saying there wasn't a Theft of some kind. But the Player believes it was likely done by a YouWager Clerk or something like that.
* My problem with that is a Clerk does have access to your information if they wanted to. But why go after an account that has $700+, when he can go after
an account that has $1000, $2000 or more.
Because if an employee was to do this, it's going to be a One Time chance.
Again I can not provide Full Detail's on everything in this case. But Here's where I have to side with the Book.
The account in question used an IP for the Payout request that was also used to Log into the account in the past.
And to login and make Wagers on other accounts
*** A common ground with at least Three of these accounts are that they are Forum Members
So I feel that the Theft in question was NOT made by an employee at YouWager, but from another source.
I did feel that YouWagers way of dealing with Payouts should be changed, and they have told me that they already have made some changes and that they would look into Futures changes as well.
*****************************************************************************************************************************
The Good News is that we have come up with solution of some kind ... as they are willing to give the Player a $700 Bonus Play for his trouble.
The Terms are as followed :
The Freeplay has a regular rollover on it like it was given to him on a deposit.
He needs to change both passwords, login and payout. They must be different.
If he wants a payout he needs to submit via email from the email in his account and they still may make him call in to verify.
Is it probably what the Player was looking for ? NO
But I believe it's fair and better than he was offered from another Forum... which was Nothing.
Now if he wants to accept the offer for himself or Give it away in a Contest or whatever, That's Totally Up to Him
Wow stand up work BAS. Really like this site and it's mods.
One thing I have an issue with is unfortunately these books can make up whatever evidence they want, and how are we going to prove otherwise? As I said earlier in this thread, I had 18k drained out of my account a few years back, and when I alerted them about it they said it was done from my IP address. Either they were blatantly lying, or this IP cloning stuff happens, because it was most definitely not me that did it.
The whole previous logins from that IP is strange though. Is there any chance that IP is a VPN IP? Because a vpn IP could be used by multiple players. When I logged in with certain VPN IPs the saved login info at the book where my account was drained showed up as some completely different account than mine. Even if I had wanted to login to that account I couldn't because I would have needed the password but it was always strange to me that info came up.
One thing I have an issue with is unfortunately these books can make up whatever evidence they want, and how are we going to prove otherwise? As I said earlier in this thread, I had 18k drained out of my account a few years back, and when I alerted them about it they said it was done from my IP address. Either they were blatantly lying, or this IP cloning stuff happens, because it was most definitely not me that did it.
The whole previous logins from that IP is strange though. Is there any chance that IP is a VPN IP? Because a vpn IP could be used by multiple players. When I logged in with certain VPN IPs the saved login info at the book where my account was drained showed up as some completely different account than mine. Even if I had wanted to login to that account I couldn't because I would have needed the password but it was always strange to me that info came up.
Well I do think there's a difference between a Shop that TELLS you it was the same IP and one that Offered to Show by Screen Shot and not some copy and paste job.
I guess i can say that the IP in question was a Verizon FiOs IP which helped me personally in this case because I happen to know a lot about them.
Sorry can't go into detail's about that, but like I said I have personal dealing with those IP's
I can't speak of if any of the accounts used a VPN or not ...
You make a good point with the password which I didn't address .... so add that they would have needed his Phone Number , Acct # and password to even get into the account.
Thank you BAS for all your help. I am floored that the Verizon IP had accessed my account before. That is new info. How do you know this IP had been used by 3 other forum members? So are you implying that the perp is someone from the forums? That was suggested to me by another player that was scammed at YouWager in the past.
Questions i I have are what exactly did this IP address access in the past? Did they try to make a play? Who are the other forum people that the IP has been used in their accounts?
Another question for BAS is his opinion on whether the book thinks I am trying to scam them or are they admitting that my account got hacked somehow? I know they told me by phone that they believed all this to be my doings. Is that still the case in your opinion?
did you get a chance to ask them about their real phone records? Did you mention that I have screen shots of my own records? Their phone records should exonerate me and prove to them that a hacker is the perp.
Questions i I have are what exactly did this IP address access in the past? Did they try to make a play? Who are the other forum people that the IP has been used in their accounts?
Another question for BAS is his opinion on whether the book thinks I am trying to scam them or are they admitting that my account got hacked somehow? I know they told me by phone that they believed all this to be my doings. Is that still the case in your opinion?
did you get a chance to ask them about their real phone records? Did you mention that I have screen shots of my own records? Their phone records should exonerate me and prove to them that a hacker is the perp.
Btw, the Bonus Play offer at least shows me YouWager is willing to accept at least a portion of the blame here. Maybe they are just shutting me up and Not expecting to have to pay anything out of the freeplay, I dunno. but this is a complete 180 from my most recent conversations with them which haven't been very friendly on either side. I'm guessing BAS caused them to further their investigation and maybe they are starting to realize that indeed my funds were stolen by someone.
I did see their records and then went back to them when you sent me your screen shot.
I didn't push this on them since it was late into the case ( 99% finished on my end ) and if there was a Cloned phone involved Your Screen shot does nothing
But you still have to remember whomever Cloned your number, had to know it.
