As if 'counseling' guarantees anything.
Every family handles things differently.
It all comes down to what kind society you want to live in. Hillary believes it takes a village; I believe it takes a family.
Some people think it's great that we have all these govt agencies with the authority to turn the family unit upside down. I'm not one of them.
Counseling doesn't guarantee everything but a sexual abuser needs counseling and you just can't argue with that point at all.
Government agency turning a family upside down? How about a kid molesting his sister turning a family upside down? You can't turn a blind eye to that kind of thing ever.
Sorry, 'counseling' doesn't guarantee anything. As an outsider, you just want some third party to swoop in and usurp the family authority to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy inside, when in reality many of your so-called 'solutions' can and do make things far worse than they already are - the point Michelangelo was making.
Blind eye to what? You mean what goes on in my neighbor's home? None of my business.
Ok dude whatever. Neighbor's 12-year-old tells you dad's sexually abusing her every single night and it's none of your business? Got it.
Of course shit like that is your business. Wife gets beat by the husband. Kids getting sexually abused. Little kid being locked in their room with barely enough food to survive.
All of that is your business if you know what the fuck is going on. Shame on you if you do nothing.
My nephew Joe Contrarian has never made a lot of sense when confronted with the imaginary scenario of how to best handle a parenting challenge, given that he has never been married nor does he have children.
Have not visited the Rx Poly Forum in many months and today I read right wing Michaelangelo and Canadian citizen "Sheriff Joe" telling us that if a 15 year old boy rapes his younger sister, it is best handled without involving public authorities.
Bizarre, we think.
But right in line with what the Duggar family believes based on the home school curriculum they have faithfully used for over 20 years and still support today (see next post)
[h=1]The Duggar Homeschool Program's Terrifying Advice on Sexual Assault[/h]
Why were evangelical reality star and conservative political activist Josh Duggar’s parents Jim Bob and Michelle so slow to act on the revelation that their eldest son had molested his younger sisters—and, ultimately, so lenient? Documents about sexual abuse from the cult-like homeschooling program the family follows—which focus on public image and lay heavy blame on the victims of assault—may help answer the question.
You see, the Duggars aren’t just “Quiverfull” breeders and Bible adherents—they’re also adherents of the Advanced Training Institute, a Bible-based homeschooling program run by alleged cult figurehead Bill Gothard. Months before the family had to deal with the revelation of Josh Duggar’s past sexual abuses, they were coping with sexual abuse allegations against Gothard.
Gothard last year denied accusations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted 34(!) women, claiming “I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent.” He was 79 years old at the time.
Although Gothard was forced to resign as the head of the Advanced Training Institute due to the accusations, the Duggars apparently still follow the organization’s teaching plans, which include lessons on how to deal with sexual abuse in the home.
These lessons were creepy when Recovering Grace (a site run by former followers of Gothard’s “cult”) and the Jezebel-reader community site Powder Room published them in January, but they’re even more disturbing now, in light of Josh Duggar’s admission this week that he abused his younger sisters as a teen.
Especially this one: “Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family,” which describes a hypothetical scenario in which parents discover that “an older brother was guilty of sexually abusing younger ones in his family.” When the older brother had “repented,” he’s asked a series of questions—including “What teaching could have been given to each child [emphasis ours] to resist evil?” and “What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?”
The lessons are frighteningly light on personal responsibility, and heavy on blame for the victim—condemning younger sisters for dressing “immodestly,” and parents for exposing the boy to temptation by having him change his sisters’ diapers. The document also blames porn, advising families to “pray for protection from pornography.”
Recovering Grace notes that “of the four listed consequences of sexual abuse, three concentrate on damage to public image.”
According to Recovering Grace, ATI’s Counseling Seminar curriculum also includes a handouton “Counseling Sexual Abuse,” which examines the many ways that a victim could have brought abuse on him or herself by “defrauding” God: Did you dress immodestly? Were you, perhaps, associating with “evil” friends? You should consider whether you’re guilty and apologize to God.
Why were evangelical reality star and conservative political activist Josh Duggar’s parents Jim Bob and Michelle so slow to act on the revelation that their eldest son had molested his younger sisters—and, ultimately, so lenient? Documents about sexual abuse from the cult-like homeschooling program the family follows—which focus on public image and lay heavy blame on the victims of assault—may help answer the question.
You see, the Duggars aren’t just “Quiverfull” breeders and Bible adherents—they’re also adherents of the Advanced Training Institute, a Bible-based homeschooling program run by alleged cult figurehead Bill Gothard. Months before the family had to deal with the revelation of Josh Duggar’s past sexual abuses, they were coping with sexual abuse allegations against Gothard.
Gothard last year denied accusations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted 34(!) women, claiming “I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent.” He was 79 years old at the time.
Although Gothard was forced to resign as the head of the Advanced Training Institute due to the accusations, the Duggars apparently still follow the organization’s teaching plans, which include lessons on how to deal with sexual abuse in the home.
These lessons were creepy when Recovering Grace (a site run by former followers of Gothard’s “cult”) and the Jezebel-reader community site Powder Room published them in January, but they’re even more disturbing now, in light of Josh Duggar’s admission this week that he abused his younger sisters as a teen.
Especially this one: “Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family,” which describes a hypothetical scenario in which parents discover that “an older brother was guilty of sexually abusing younger ones in his family.” When the older brother had “repented,” he’s asked a series of questions—including “What teaching could have been given to each child [emphasis ours] to resist evil?” and “What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?”
The lessons are frighteningly light on personal responsibility, and heavy on blame for the victim—condemning younger sisters for dressing “immodestly,” and parents for exposing the boy to temptation by having him change his sisters’ diapers. The document also blames porn, advising families to “pray for protection from pornography.”
Recovering Grace notes that “of the four listed consequences of sexual abuse, three concentrate on damage to public image.”
According to Recovering Grace, ATI’s Counseling Seminar curriculum also includes a handouton “Counseling Sexual Abuse,” which examines the many ways that a victim could have brought abuse on him or herself by “defrauding” God: Did you dress immodestly? Were you, perhaps, associating with “evil” friends? You should consider whether you’re guilty and apologize to God.
So all good, Michealangelo....after your daughter tearfully comes to you - her greatest hero - and informs you her older brother raped her, first things first. Remind her to dress more modestly and to not tease her brother.
Then give your son a Good Talking To!
Remember, Public Image is everything.
Then give your son a Good Talking To!
Remember, Public Image is everything.
I mean, I'm a conservative too but the mindset that it's ok to turn your back on your own daughter that's been raped by your son is beyond me.
And even worse, to know your neighbor is being abused and to just say "not my problem" is the true problem in it of itself. You have to stand up for what's right and protect those that can't protect themselves period.
ENFUEGO, have a bit of relief in knowing that while Michaelangelo is honestly expressing himself, the guy using "Sheriff Joe" (aka Joe Contrarian) is pretty much just doing a long term bit. That of the imaginary anti-government social conservative who will take no shit from any public authority whatsoever.
Once you realize he's just playing a faux role on the interweb, he's a lot less alarming
Once you realize he's just playing a faux role on the interweb, he's a lot less alarming
Yeah, yeah...
You can wag your finger till you're blue in the face, you have no way of knowing if your neighbor's 12-year old is telling you the truth or not...and therein lies the problem. Even if your neighbor in the end turns out to be innocent, you have given the govt enough authority to pretty much ruin that family's life.
Your argument is intellectually dishonest if only for the fact you're pretending you actually know your neighbor is guilty.
Adjudication is one thing, allowing some govt agency to physically remove your neighbor's children from their home and/or force them into some useless multi-step program is quite another.
More statist bullshit... is what it really is.
I'm not taking a dogmatic position on Michelangelo's theoretical position, but do think that it's not cut-and-dry that you always call the authorities no matter what, and
there would be situations where what the state might label sexual molestation, I would handle without calling the authorities.
For example, 15 year old boy sticks his hands down 13 year old girls pants and grabs her ass --> Not something the state needs to be called about (IMHO).
there would be situations where what the state might label sexual molestation, I would handle without calling the authorities.
For example, 15 year old boy sticks his hands down 13 year old girls pants and grabs her ass --> Not something the state needs to be called about (IMHO).
Well, I have an 11-year-old and kids at that age usually aren't in the business of lying that much. It happens of course.
But...if it even comes up, you have to do what's right and report it. You just have to. It's the law. You can't use your own judgement to determine if some other kid is lying or not. If she is sincere and telling you what's happening to her, you have to protect her whether she's your kid or not.
Whether you like it or not, those government agencies keep life in America somewhat civilized.
