I think the whole world economy is going to shit, including America's. Still, I see America as the best (or least shitty if you prefer) place to live because of all the options one has and the tremendous respect for one's individuality that is not shared by too many other countries. I am also optimistic about life in general because one can survive tough economic times if one is smart.
Your views OTOH sound very defeatist. That is diametrically opposite to me. I'm basically taking on the world and feel I have a good chance of winning. Maybe that's nutty but at least give me credit for having a positive outlook. They say optimism adds years to your life and so it's worth trying to find IMO.
Hey Barman, say it like you mean it! Good to see some pep in your step today.
I don't see anything wrong with cash motivation in school per se, but I do believe taxation is theft all across the board. If people aren't willing to pay for something voluntarily, then it probably sucks.
Don't be absurdly libertarian here.
You and I could each make a list - though perhaps different in content - of stuff paid for by taxes that doesn't suck and for which people would pay for if called upon privately.
The notion of "taxation being theft" is provocative if we're considering creation of a new social group, municipality or larger collection of people.
But in reality, each of us as adults are aware, or should be aware of the taxes pertinent to our individual communities. If we freely choose to live within these communities, we are agreeably consenting to participate in the associated taxation.
Not to say I don't encourage the peaceful and civilly disobedient hiding of revenues and other evidence that triggers various taxes. But once you've exhausted any and all such covert methods - then give. And be thankful our various governments don't actually send out armed collection agents who can seize your person or property without due process.
Teenagers inclined to commit such acts of violence against schoolteachers are extremely unlikely to be actively attending school (a core requirement of this incentive program) and/or to be exhibiting consistent good behavior on campus.
If you think there's many teenagers out there who would actively attend class, consistently show good behavior on campus and then also commit violent crimes against faculty in order to chase down $50 per week, you're on a different plane than the rest of us.
Obviously an issue costing a buck or two per capita in a single city is not going to be the poster child for libertarianism. And yes, if you take away taxes, some of that money would still be paid in some form or another for similar services. But consider this ...
You knock on my door offering me a service. You are 99.9% sure I will accept your offer, so rather than waiting for me to say I accept and pay you $50, you just snatch $50 from my wallet and say you are giving me the service whether I like it or not. If I don't like it I can leave. Then you argue that you did nothing wrong because I would've accepted the service anyway.
Well, in my crazy world, that's not how it works. Every time a government decides to spend my money, it's the exact same thing. Of course there is no time to ask everyone for each transaction, but that's only a practical matter. It doesn't change the basic demeaning and unethical nature of the action.
Still, in order for the world to function, a practical compromise must be reached. In a world where there is a high respect for individual sovereignty and dignity, that practical compromise is reached when the government gets involved in the fewest issues possible. There has to be compelling justification before the gov't gets involved in anything. If in doubt, the gov't doesn't do it.
So back to the micro issue of the day, I don't see compelling justification for the gov't to get involved in motivating students to do well in school. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, just that it's not one of the govt's responsibilities IMO.
As for being thankful that the gov't doesn't send out agents, that's equivalent to being thankful we don't have communism. I am thankful for that, but those thanks are directed to the creator who made the world such that communism is a failed paradigm, and not to any set of human beings in authority who are somehow exercising their benevolence towards me in their own minds.
Yep.
A couple million good kids coming out of public school systems nationwide.
Meanwhile, those kids who are otherwise not mentally handicapped and are not making it in the public school system are likely headed to Loserville and there's not a whole lot that can be done about it by those of us who care.
Your scenario is compelling. But in fact, it's not a knock on the door followed by a forcible grab.
Instead, it's an announcement of a public meeting wherein you are permitted to offer your support or objection to the proposed service/program. Followed in most cases by a reasonably in-depth series of public votes via elected representatives before the "grab" is enacted. At which time you still have the option of opting out by relocating to a climate you find more agreeable.
Now I'm very aware that this somewhat reasonable sequence increasingly deteriorates the further you get from Home. Thus my much stronger disagreement with federally produced taxation in a country our size. Neither you or I are given much, if any, voice in the discussions of taxation within the US Congress.
The Topic herein deals with a local school system and it's related taxes. That's an arena I believe can be dealt with by those with honestly sufficient interest.
I can on the one hand encourage honest support of local level taxes as decided by the residents therein while also encouraging with a smile most any level of civilly disobedient avoidance of paying taxes called for on the federal level.
MARK, it's good to see you awake and in the house here at our friendly PoliticoPub. I hope your 12 hours of rest & sleep during the down side of your bipolar cycle invigorated you.
Based on your past couple years history, this leads to a forecast of you being busy here during most all Wednesday and into early Thursday AM followed by another 12-18 hours off and then a solid weekend blast of participation likely kicking off mid-Friday evening.
Get us that Reagan YouTube if you get a minute....you know the one I want.....heh
Liberals believe in BIG GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY (and all the selfish infighting, corruption, political shenanigans, cronyism that goes along with it).
Conservatives believe in PEOPLE -- LESS GOVERNMENT. PEOPLE make this country great, NOT government and these far left special interest programs that do not have the children's best interest at heart.
Just another STUPID government program that sounds great on paper but -- like all previous liberal ideas -- is doomed to FAIL because imbeciles like "barnman" on the left do not understand human nature: the self interest factor.
BRIBING kids to go to school???? Are you kidding me?????
Far left George Soros-sponsored imbeciles like "barnman" are destroying America!
Conservatives believe in PEOPLE -- LESS GOVERNMENT. PEOPLE make this country great, NOT government and these far left special interest programs that do not have the children's best interest at heart.
Just another STUPID government program that sounds great on paper but -- like all previous liberal ideas -- is doomed to FAIL because imbeciles like "barnman" on the left do not understand human nature: the self interest factor.
BRIBING kids to go to school???? Are you kidding me?????
Far left George Soros-sponsored imbeciles like "barnman" are destroying America!
Whenever you have a situation where a minority of the people get stolen from to be redistributed to a majority, you will have the support of the majority, as if by magic. Letting the minority have their say before taking their money still doesn't change the nature of the situation, except maybe appearances.
Taking it a step further, one can argue that one vote per person is not a good idea. I realize that goes against the constitution so here is where I diverge from Ron Paul.
Rather than naively think there is any chance to get my ideas accepted, I realize that the majority will exert force on me, ie. that you will snatch the $50 from me anyway -- after I get a chance to vent of course, very important to satisfy your psyche, making you believe it was the result of a "discussion" rather than an act of aggression.
The simple fact that such a majority exists is enough to make me say "gee, this sucks" but when I look at other places I see either the same thing or worse, so then I have to recalibrate what "sucks" means and say "gee, this is pretty good".
Of course I have my own little world in which it still sucks and sometimes I'm torn between boring the forum with those thoughts because on one hand that's narcissistic, but on the other hand there is a chance that others might find it insightful. Jury is still out on this one.
In the meantime, I am with you in theory on civil disobedience to the extent possible, but for me it would apply to tax at the local level too if they didn't have us by the balls via our houses, our cars, and our driving records. Damn gov't. Grrrr.
Question: How many parents pay their kids to attend school or do their homework?
'barnman" to his kids: Do your homework! Or...or...or....I'll pay you $15 an hour to do so! :lolBIG:
This from the same idiotic nihilistic line of thinking that told us "teens are gonna have sex anyway, so we may as well show'em how!"
hno:
How many two parent homes would voluntarily instill this type of entitlement mentality into their kids?
Answer: ZERO!
If your teachers and school boards think like :coke: "barnman" does, your kids are in trouble.
PULL THEM OUT!
Folks, since the 1960s America entered a new dark age called secular humanism.
The good news is, throughout history every dark age has always been followed by an age of enlightenment and moral revival, for example, the era of our Founding Fathers.
The next age new age of enlightenment is closer than most people think.
'barnman" to his kids: Do your homework! Or...or...or....I'll pay you $15 an hour to do so! :lolBIG:
This from the same idiotic nihilistic line of thinking that told us "teens are gonna have sex anyway, so we may as well show'em how!"
hno: How many two parent homes would voluntarily instill this type of entitlement mentality into their kids?
Answer: ZERO!
If your teachers and school boards think like :coke: "barnman" does, your kids are in trouble.
PULL THEM OUT!
Folks, since the 1960s America entered a new dark age called secular humanism.
The good news is, throughout history every dark age has always been followed by an age of enlightenment and moral revival, for example, the era of our Founding Fathers.
The next age new age of enlightenment is closer than most people think.
MARK's counsel: If your school board thinks like this, pull your kids out!!
SH: And put 'em where?
If they're good, contributing students they can score $200 per month in (this) public school district.
If we pull them out, they're now good, contributing students in a private school, where they get no incentive $$ and we as parents pay out the nose for their tuition.
Severely Sad, But Comedic Gold counsel from our bipolar forum member who is all full of late night energy with no one at which to direct it.
SH: And put 'em where?
If they're good, contributing students they can score $200 per month in (this) public school district.
If we pull them out, they're now good, contributing students in a private school, where they get no incentive $$ and we as parents pay out the nose for their tuition.
Severely Sad, But Comedic Gold counsel from our bipolar forum member who is all full of late night energy with no one at which to direct it.
DPARSONS: The simple fact that such a majority exists is enough to make me say "gee, this sucks" but when I look at other places I see either the same thing or worse, so then I have to recalibrate what "sucks" means and say "gee, this is pretty good".
SH: Well yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at.
Philosophically, if I, or you were put in charge of the Whole Show, it would of course (of course!) be at least a few steps up.
But given the current realities, we must at least give an acknowledging hat tip to, "It's not the best system, but it's for now better than most every other system."
===
DP: Of course I have my own little world in which it still sucks and sometimes I'm torn between boring the forum with those thoughts because on one hand that's narcissistic, but on the other hand there is a chance that others might find it insightful. Jury is still out on this one.
SH: You've just described my own Personal Hell....heh
===
DP: In the meantime, I am with you in theory on civil disobedience to the extent possible, but for me it would apply to tax at the local level too if they didn't have us by the balls via our houses, our cars, and our driving records. Damn gov't. Grrrr.
SH: Ayuh...the local level has a bit more ability to enforce the social agreements of it's residents, even those who are begrudgingly along for the ride.
A cheery corollary to our legitimate complaints about the federal behemoth is that it's so damn big that it's usually fairly easy to stay out of its grip provided you stay alert and nimble.
When someone bitches to me about a potential bump up in federal income taxation my best advice is that they get a little smarter on how to create more revenues which are kept out of government eye.
SH: Well yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at.
Philosophically, if I, or you were put in charge of the Whole Show, it would of course (of course!) be at least a few steps up.
But given the current realities, we must at least give an acknowledging hat tip to, "It's not the best system, but it's for now better than most every other system."
===
DP: Of course I have my own little world in which it still sucks and sometimes I'm torn between boring the forum with those thoughts because on one hand that's narcissistic, but on the other hand there is a chance that others might find it insightful. Jury is still out on this one.
SH: You've just described my own Personal Hell....heh
===
DP: In the meantime, I am with you in theory on civil disobedience to the extent possible, but for me it would apply to tax at the local level too if they didn't have us by the balls via our houses, our cars, and our driving records. Damn gov't. Grrrr.
SH: Ayuh...the local level has a bit more ability to enforce the social agreements of it's residents, even those who are begrudgingly along for the ride.
A cheery corollary to our legitimate complaints about the federal behemoth is that it's so damn big that it's usually fairly easy to stay out of its grip provided you stay alert and nimble.
When someone bitches to me about a potential bump up in federal income taxation my best advice is that they get a little smarter on how to create more revenues which are kept out of government eye.
