ramdaddy:
I like a good bonus just as much as the next guy, but I agree with 5Dimes in not paying the guy in this specific case.
When you have some time, check out my 9:15 EST post in the "5 dimes did the switch on hommie" thread, and let me know where I am wrong (if anywhere) in my analysis of the situation.
I like a good bonus just as much as the next guy, but I agree with 5Dimes in not paying the guy in this specific case.
When you have some time, check out my 9:15 EST post in the "5 dimes did the switch on hommie" thread, and let me know where I am wrong (if anywhere) in my analysis of the situation.
Halifax:
How does Olympic define "active" account on their website? I really would like to know if there is an industry wide definition, or is the definition dependent upon the book, or are inexperienced gamblers presumed to know the definition? I have got a bonus from Olympic before, when I deposited in excess of $500 with them signing up, but I don't think bonus hunters will kill them off in the long run.
How does Olympic define "active" account on their website? I really would like to know if there is an industry wide definition, or is the definition dependent upon the book, or are inexperienced gamblers presumed to know the definition? I have got a bonus from Olympic before, when I deposited in excess of $500 with them signing up, but I don't think bonus hunters will kill them off in the long run.
EGD, if safe guards aren't in place (photo id request or etc.) to stop the bonus manipulating then wouldn't that be a sign to stop offering bonuses and explore other ways to promote your book? No one said the bonus business is fair but at least keep the manipulating to a minumum or get the hell out of offering them. If you notice some books that offer bonuses never appear in valid complaints offshore forum because they are to the point with no BS clauses?
Halifax:
I read your 9:15 EST post. I don't disagree with your post in theory. Actually I have felt all along that you are probably correct in stating that the books intention is to keep someone in action, but the rule as stated could be ambiguous. I think the rule is probably somewhat ambiguous intentionally so that the book(s) can define it in any manner that they desire AFTER the fact. (Disclaimer: This is my opinion only and does not in any manner reflect upon the actual thought process of any book in particular or 5dimes specifically). I understand both sides of the coin. I am neither pro book nor pro player, I am merely pro Ramsey(me), but when I look at a situation like this I see the problems with the industry everyone else sees, only I see the problems in a different manner. I see it not the fault of the generally inexperienced player, but I see it as a fault of the all-knowing sportsbook. If bonuses are that big of a potential downfall to the industry and bonus whores are the problem, then books need not offer them. I feel that the inexperienced person should not be blamed held to the higher standard when there is some ambiguity present. I understand you too are advocating 5dimes define the terms, but my rationale is absent that occurring, if the rollover requirement is met and the money is in the account, pay the poor guy, don't reward the sportsbook's ambiguity. My opinion is based on this specific instance only since the 30 day requirement had been rendered a mere formality due to the rollover requirement having been met and the ability (under your defined "active" account terms) of the player to make miniscule plays throughout the course of the 30 day ambigious period of waiting. As I said, this is a case by case analysis to me to determine the ambiguity of the individual sportsbook terms. I may be wrong, but all I can do is lay out my take on the situation since I do not believe there is a "wrong" or "right" in this instance.
I read your 9:15 EST post. I don't disagree with your post in theory. Actually I have felt all along that you are probably correct in stating that the books intention is to keep someone in action, but the rule as stated could be ambiguous. I think the rule is probably somewhat ambiguous intentionally so that the book(s) can define it in any manner that they desire AFTER the fact. (Disclaimer: This is my opinion only and does not in any manner reflect upon the actual thought process of any book in particular or 5dimes specifically). I understand both sides of the coin. I am neither pro book nor pro player, I am merely pro Ramsey(me), but when I look at a situation like this I see the problems with the industry everyone else sees, only I see the problems in a different manner. I see it not the fault of the generally inexperienced player, but I see it as a fault of the all-knowing sportsbook. If bonuses are that big of a potential downfall to the industry and bonus whores are the problem, then books need not offer them. I feel that the inexperienced person should not be blamed held to the higher standard when there is some ambiguity present. I understand you too are advocating 5dimes define the terms, but my rationale is absent that occurring, if the rollover requirement is met and the money is in the account, pay the poor guy, don't reward the sportsbook's ambiguity. My opinion is based on this specific instance only since the 30 day requirement had been rendered a mere formality due to the rollover requirement having been met and the ability (under your defined "active" account terms) of the player to make miniscule plays throughout the course of the 30 day ambigious period of waiting. As I said, this is a case by case analysis to me to determine the ambiguity of the individual sportsbook terms. I may be wrong, but all I can do is lay out my take on the situation since I do not believe there is a "wrong" or "right" in this instance.
posted May 21, 2003 03:31 AM
"I defend the book as I've done business with them for years now. I've never had any bullshit changes happen to me & I've always been paid promptly. They have even been helpful to me when I entered in something wrong by accident etc.
The book has treated me well & I stand up for it for what they have done for me & what they have to offer to the real gambling consumer not the bonus hunting whores looking to take a quick pop & hope they can cash in on some free dough.
Can any of you honestly tell me if you were running a book you would like to have people sign up, play one casino game to "barely" meet rollovers, stay idle to the exact day they are elligible to withdraw funds & then never come back? If you say yes you are either full of shit or nuts. This person's intentions were so obvious it is pathetic." -EGD
EGD, To blindly defend a book because you "have done business with them for years" without looking at the facts, is the problem alot of people are having I think.
Especially all the bookie types in CR who always jump in to defend a bad move by a CR book.
"Can any of you honestly tell me if you were running a book you would like to have people sign up, play one casino game to "barely" meet rollovers, stay idle to the exact day they are elligible to withdraw funds & then never come back? If you say yes you are either full of shit or nuts. This person's intentions were so obvious it is pathetic." -EGD
I would not say I would "like that" but if it was in my rules, I sure would not stiff the player on his bonus because he let me hold his money for 30 days! I sure would not make up the rules as I went along, because someone "barely" (doesn't barely mean "met" the requirements?)
met the requirements.
The persons intentions are irrelevant imo, as he was following the rules. If the rules are not at the books desire they should change them.
Can you tell me what were the books intentions when they decided to stiff the player on the bonus???
"I defend the book as I've done business with them for years now. I've never had any bullshit changes happen to me & I've always been paid promptly. They have even been helpful to me when I entered in something wrong by accident etc.
The book has treated me well & I stand up for it for what they have done for me & what they have to offer to the real gambling consumer not the bonus hunting whores looking to take a quick pop & hope they can cash in on some free dough.
Can any of you honestly tell me if you were running a book you would like to have people sign up, play one casino game to "barely" meet rollovers, stay idle to the exact day they are elligible to withdraw funds & then never come back? If you say yes you are either full of shit or nuts. This person's intentions were so obvious it is pathetic." -EGD
EGD, To blindly defend a book because you "have done business with them for years" without looking at the facts, is the problem alot of people are having I think.
Especially all the bookie types in CR who always jump in to defend a bad move by a CR book.
"Can any of you honestly tell me if you were running a book you would like to have people sign up, play one casino game to "barely" meet rollovers, stay idle to the exact day they are elligible to withdraw funds & then never come back? If you say yes you are either full of shit or nuts. This person's intentions were so obvious it is pathetic." -EGD
I would not say I would "like that" but if it was in my rules, I sure would not stiff the player on his bonus because he let me hold his money for 30 days! I sure would not make up the rules as I went along, because someone "barely" (doesn't barely mean "met" the requirements?)
The persons intentions are irrelevant imo, as he was following the rules. If the rules are not at the books desire they should change them.
Can you tell me what were the books intentions when they decided to stiff the player on the bonus???
expect to be credited what you put into your account...dont expect a bonus other then a picked up w/u fee or neteller fee....then we wont have to keep seeing these same threads over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
stop looking for the places to play only because they are offering you "free money". because if they fold up and go home or decide to change their rules on you, you will just be here crying about it again and again and again and again
stop looking for the places to play only because they are offering you "free money". because if they fold up and go home or decide to change their rules on you, you will just be here crying about it again and again and again and again
Bart, that is what this place is for. Why is it the players fault that almost every book offers bonuses?
I agree these bonus whore posts are annoying, but if the books would stop offering so many bonuses with stupid rules that even they don't understand than we would not have this problem.
The book wanted the player to play more than there rules stated. They should change there rules.
To resolve this issue, they should give the player ANOTHER roll over requirment, one that they are happy with now. It is the only solution I can see.
I agree these bonus whore posts are annoying, but if the books would stop offering so many bonuses with stupid rules that even they don't understand than we would not have this problem.
The book wanted the player to play more than there rules stated. They should change there rules.
To resolve this issue, they should give the player ANOTHER roll over requirment, one that they are happy with now. It is the only solution I can see.
bart:
Don't blame the players for taking advantage of the deals that the books offer. If a player adheres to the written rules, I do not begrudge that player getting the bonus.
It's just as much the books' fault for offering what they offer: if a book has, for example, 3X rollover requirements, they shouldn't deny someone their bonus because he bets 3X + $1 and then withdraws. If they don't like that, then they should make it a 5X or 10X rollover requirement, or implement a 30 day rule, or something similar.
I side with 5Dimes in this case simply because I believe that, according to their written rules, this guy did not meet his requirements for the bonus, since his deposit did not remain active for 30 days.
Don't blame the players for taking advantage of the deals that the books offer. If a player adheres to the written rules, I do not begrudge that player getting the bonus.
It's just as much the books' fault for offering what they offer: if a book has, for example, 3X rollover requirements, they shouldn't deny someone their bonus because he bets 3X + $1 and then withdraws. If they don't like that, then they should make it a 5X or 10X rollover requirement, or implement a 30 day rule, or something similar.
I side with 5Dimes in this case simply because I believe that, according to their written rules, this guy did not meet his requirements for the bonus, since his deposit did not remain active for 30 days.
the books only offer them because they think thats what you want...tell them next time that instead of a bonus, you just want to be paid when you win.....no bonus....im sure it will make them happy
otherwise each new book will come in and make an offer they cant afford to and when they go broke...you will all be here crying some more about how you were stiffed by another book
otherwise each new book will come in and make an offer they cant afford to and when they go broke...you will all be here crying some more about how you were stiffed by another book
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>bart:
Don't blame the players for taking advantage of the deals that the books offer <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i blame the players for expecting these bonuses, and i blame the books for thinking something other then good lines and good customer service is needed
Don't blame the players for taking advantage of the deals that the books offer <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i blame the players for expecting these bonuses, and i blame the books for thinking something other then good lines and good customer service is needed
Any of you that know me know I am staunchly a player advocate. I am probably more stringent with sportsbooks than most.
This 5 Dimes stuff is ridiculous though. 5 Dimes is an excellent sportsbook.
I also hate seeing all these complaints about bonuses. If all places get is complaints when they offer bonuses, then they will have little incentive to continue to offer them.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
David
This 5 Dimes stuff is ridiculous though. 5 Dimes is an excellent sportsbook.
I also hate seeing all these complaints about bonuses. If all places get is complaints when they offer bonuses, then they will have little incentive to continue to offer them.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
David
posted May 19, 2003 04:05 PM
"5 Dimes is an excellent book. The UG software is suspected of having a cheat switch and I think I have seen it at other UG's but at 5 Dimes my luck was awesome.
I deposited $400 and played blackjack. Their site was slow and I got tired of $10 bets. I bet $50 a hand and went from $400 to over $1,200. I then got my bonus dollars which added another couple hundred on top of that. I then used the money to bet sports. They have a lot of great props and things like that.
While this person may have followed the letter of the law in acquiring the bonus, it was not at all in the spirit of the promotion. It is people doing things like this that will hurt all the players who want bonuses, like me.
A 50% matchplay is a strong bonus. Don't be a greedy jackass. If they ask for 5X, give them 10X. If you have to wait 30 days, place a sports bet every couple days. Sheesh."
David
Dave, I would call you a shill for 5 dimes long before I would call you an advocate for any player.
Why isn't the book being a "greedy jackass"?
"When they ask for 5x, give them 10". Uh ok.
WHY DON'T THEY JUST ASK FOR 10 instead of stealing from the player???
5dimes has been removed from the bet2gamble directory, I urge others that look out for the player to do so as well.
"5 Dimes is an excellent book. The UG software is suspected of having a cheat switch and I think I have seen it at other UG's but at 5 Dimes my luck was awesome.
I deposited $400 and played blackjack. Their site was slow and I got tired of $10 bets. I bet $50 a hand and went from $400 to over $1,200. I then got my bonus dollars which added another couple hundred on top of that. I then used the money to bet sports. They have a lot of great props and things like that.
While this person may have followed the letter of the law in acquiring the bonus, it was not at all in the spirit of the promotion. It is people doing things like this that will hurt all the players who want bonuses, like me.
A 50% matchplay is a strong bonus. Don't be a greedy jackass. If they ask for 5X, give them 10X. If you have to wait 30 days, place a sports bet every couple days. Sheesh."
David
Dave, I would call you a shill for 5 dimes long before I would call you an advocate for any player.
Why isn't the book being a "greedy jackass"?
"When they ask for 5x, give them 10". Uh ok.
WHY DON'T THEY JUST ASK FOR 10 instead of stealing from the player???
5dimes has been removed from the bet2gamble directory, I urge others that look out for the player to do so as well.
"5dimes has been removed from the bet2gamble directory"
---------------
cecil:
To be fair, you should of course add that C.M. stated he does not think the player deserves to be paid the bonus from 5Dimes.
The reason for the removal looks like it stems from the conduct of the customer service people on LiveChat.
---------------
cecil:
To be fair, you should of course add that C.M. stated he does not think the player deserves to be paid the bonus from 5Dimes.
The reason for the removal looks like it stems from the conduct of the customer service people on LiveChat.
Cecil,
Who gives a phuck if they were removed ? Pure and simple they pay, they will survive and they will continue to do business as usual...Meanwhile more than likely the "Bonus Whores" will continue to squeal when a book stands up and does the right thing by not paying them their bonus when they have not met the requirements.
Good Luck To All
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cecil:
posted May 19, 2003 04:05 PM
"_5 Dimes is an excellent book. The UG software is suspected of having a cheat switch and I think I have seen it at other UG's but at 5 Dimes my luck was awesome.
I deposited $400 and played blackjack. Their site was slow and I got tired of $10 bets. I bet $50 a hand and went from $400 to over $1,200. I then got my bonus dollars which added another couple hundred on top of that. I then used the money to bet sports. They have a lot of great props and things like that.
While this person may have followed the letter of the law in acquiring the bonus, it was not at all in the spirit of the promotion. It is people doing things like this that will hurt all the players who want bonuses, like me.
A 50% matchplay is a strong bonus. Don't be a greedy jackass. If they ask for 5X, give them 10X. If you have to wait 30 days, place a sports bet every couple days. Sheesh."_
David
Dave, I would call you a shill for 5 dimes long before I would call you an advocate for any player.
Why isn't the book being a "greedy jackass"?
"When they ask for 5x, give them 10". Uh ok.
WHY DON'T THEY JUST ASK FOR 10 instead of stealing from the player???
5dimes has been removed from the bet2gamble directory, I urge others that look out for the player to do so as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who gives a phuck if they were removed ? Pure and simple they pay, they will survive and they will continue to do business as usual...Meanwhile more than likely the "Bonus Whores" will continue to squeal when a book stands up and does the right thing by not paying them their bonus when they have not met the requirements.
Good Luck To All
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cecil:
posted May 19, 2003 04:05 PM
"_5 Dimes is an excellent book. The UG software is suspected of having a cheat switch and I think I have seen it at other UG's but at 5 Dimes my luck was awesome.
I deposited $400 and played blackjack. Their site was slow and I got tired of $10 bets. I bet $50 a hand and went from $400 to over $1,200. I then got my bonus dollars which added another couple hundred on top of that. I then used the money to bet sports. They have a lot of great props and things like that.
While this person may have followed the letter of the law in acquiring the bonus, it was not at all in the spirit of the promotion. It is people doing things like this that will hurt all the players who want bonuses, like me.
A 50% matchplay is a strong bonus. Don't be a greedy jackass. If they ask for 5X, give them 10X. If you have to wait 30 days, place a sports bet every couple days. Sheesh."_
David
Dave, I would call you a shill for 5 dimes long before I would call you an advocate for any player.
Why isn't the book being a "greedy jackass"?
"When they ask for 5x, give them 10". Uh ok.
WHY DON'T THEY JUST ASK FOR 10 instead of stealing from the player???
5dimes has been removed from the bet2gamble directory, I urge others that look out for the player to do so as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From C.M.:
"Technically, 5Dimes was in the right not to pay shlomo's money because he was not active by any stretch of the imagination, but their attitude towards players is hostile at best, and their rules are not defined well enough. Therefore, we are removing 5Dimes from our directory until they clearly define what their bonus wagering requirements are. If they want to get back in our directory, they will have to draw that "map". "
------------------------
cecil:
You read this - you posted in that thread. How much more clarification do you need ?
"Technically, 5Dimes was in the right not to pay shlomo's money because he was not active by any stretch of the imagination, but their attitude towards players is hostile at best, and their rules are not defined well enough. Therefore, we are removing 5Dimes from our directory until they clearly define what their bonus wagering requirements are. If they want to get back in our directory, they will have to draw that "map". "
------------------------
cecil:
You read this - you posted in that thread. How much more clarification do you need ?
Tex, I care. I also will not deposit there again until this is resolved.
If they like that, good for them.
This is all I can do, to stand up for my fellow player.
I hope they survive, I hope this is worked out.
Regardless I will still stand up for what I believe in, and I think these boards can make a huge difference.
This is as close to any type of union the players have...
If they like that, good for them.
This is all I can do, to stand up for my fellow player.
I hope they survive, I hope this is worked out.
Regardless I will still stand up for what I believe in, and I think these boards can make a huge difference.
This is as close to any type of union the players have...
