Does misses Punter know this?
"But as we have learned very clearly and conclusively over the last 8 years, tax cuts alone can't solve all of our economic problems, especially tax cuts that are targeted to the wealthiest few Americans. We have tried that strategy time and time again, and it's only helped lead us to the crisis we face right now."
-Barack Obama
Giving tax cuts isn't what lead us to the crisis we have now. The American people, in their desperation, have elected a liar in the same vein as George Bush.
The wealthiest few Americans are those who employ people. Taking money from them will only lead to more unemployment.
Barack Obama is doomed to prolong this depression in the same way FDR did. History will repeat itself.
-Barack Obama
Giving tax cuts isn't what lead us to the crisis we have now. The American people, in their desperation, have elected a liar in the same vein as George Bush.
The wealthiest few Americans are those who employ people. Taking money from them will only lead to more unemployment.
Barack Obama is doomed to prolong this depression in the same way FDR did. History will repeat itself.
I agree with all of that.
By the way.Who here has ever been hired by a poor person?
The whole fucking thing is class warfare.Its still a fact that 10% of wealthiest in this country pay about 80% of all the taxes.And all I know is that the more goverment is involed the more waste,incompetence graft and general fucks ups are involved.
I do not give a shit about being rich.I do give a shit about being free.I want nothing from the goverment except my constitutional rights life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness,not a goverment mandated garantee of happiness.The only thing I want from gov. is protection against enemies foriegn and domestic and a proper infratructureLike the founding fathers wrote in the first place,the rest is bullshit.And to think that a whole new country with absolutley nothing celebrated this concept 240 years ago is all I want....gee imagine that.
You fuckin libs kill me. If you see some "unjustice" that pulls at your heart strings.Why the fuck do you want a middle man to take care of it.If you see some junkie bitch with 4 kids why don't you invite them to live in your house? Why are my time and wages confiscated for YOUR pet projects?
Dont know what u guys were smoking last night but that article nowhere claims this is the largest tax cut in history. It say "one of the largest"..........and that untrue also but whatever....
Any fucking moron who thinks $13 a week will turn anything is.....well a fucking moron..
Any fucking moron who thinks $13 a week will turn anything is.....well a fucking moron..
Who the hell said they came to the US? Perhaps they were born in the US, but wait that makes your argument pointless. Also, you left out one big point in your class mobility argument. You stated ...."despite how long, how much, or how hard they work." You left out HOW SMART THEY WORK. If it was just about how long, how much, or how hard people work those folks who build houses and ditch diggers would be at the top of the food chain. Instead those people who work smarter, harder, longer etc. are the ones will the big bucks. Finally, this is an internet board not a language arts class.
Pat- brand new here- and I love the seperate American views on this forum. I happen to agree with yours 100%. Way back when Reagan was elected and he was lowering capital gains tax a young golf pro told me - well he is only helping the rich. I asked him who he worked for? He told me. I asked him how he got his money. He said he was a lawyer. No I told him, he invested in land and over years sold it for a profit (before capital taxes rose). He then built a golf course- pumping millions into the economy. I asked this golf pro- how many people work here? He told me 25. I asked him how much money did those 25 get taxed each and every year? And do you think those 25 are glad they had a job?
You see the lower capital tax laws allowed this lawyer (who came from a single parent - close to poor family- who worked his way through college and borrowed money to go to law school) to begin a business. With higher capital gains it may never had occured. (With high taxes and high capital tax laws he may have decided to not invest his money- he may have just sat back and decided it was not worth the risk)
I believe every time there has been a reduction in capital gains there has been an increase in the economic growth. So why should I bust my ass and invest in risk if there is no payoff. Why should I give it someone that has not worked hard -to get my money.
Great forum- everyone have a great day--
You see the lower capital tax laws allowed this lawyer (who came from a single parent - close to poor family- who worked his way through college and borrowed money to go to law school) to begin a business. With higher capital gains it may never had occured. (With high taxes and high capital tax laws he may have decided to not invest his money- he may have just sat back and decided it was not worth the risk)
I believe every time there has been a reduction in capital gains there has been an increase in the economic growth. So why should I bust my ass and invest in risk if there is no payoff. Why should I give it someone that has not worked hard -to get my money.
Great forum- everyone have a great day--
Great first post Chickenman hope to see more.
The Obama stock market reflects your views.
The thing about capitalism is that there are winners and losers.I was brought up to admire winners not be jealous of them.I know self made millionaires with less than high school education that ride around in BMW's who started by saving money from paper routes on used bicycles. That is hope.That it can be done.Obamanomics shits on and discourages all that.The more you try to climb the more of someone elses weight you have to carry....hoplessness.
Basically Obamas socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money.
What this country needs is limited goverment not limited success.
Thanks for helping make my point. If you read my earlier post maybe you would understand me.
I don't give a fuck about being a millionaire.I want my freedom.I don't want to owe anything to anybody or anybody owe me. I want for nothing.I live in my own home and furnish it with what i want and its all paid for with my own labor not someone elses.I pursuit my happiness at my own level.Goverments confiscation at gunpoint of my wages for illegal aliens and frizbee golf courses interferes with my personal freedom.
If my sattelite bill goes up I can tell the millionaire sattelite company to go fuck yourself I ain't payying and take your shit out of my house.
If my taxes go up and tell goverment fuck you.They put me in cuffs and take my house.
There are remarkable few separate views here, American or otherwise. There are the wing nuts, the whack jobs, the kooks, the crazies, the fundies, and the Democrats & progressives.
You're saying you can read minds and your mistaking an independent variable (capital tax rate at the time of investment) for the only variable.
You can do better than believe. You can find out. The internets are great for that. There are people who spend their whole lives collecting and collating data so that instead of merely "believing" something to be true you can actually find out. (More on that below)
is not.
- except, apparently, "someone that has not worked hard?"
Capital gains tax cuts are great if you believe the fallacy of supply side economics. As it turns out, however, the data show that supply side practice doesn't lead to trickle down wealth. In fact, it leads to the greater concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. The data are available. Here's a brief sum, expressed more coherently and cogently than I have the time or wits for:
In 1980, Lawrence Summers (one of the nation's top economists, and then a conservative) conducted a definitive study that found that eliminating the capital gains tax completely would raise U.S. output by only 1 percent over the next 10 years.
The historical evidence bears out the ineffectualness of these tax cuts as well. In November 1978, the top rate for capital gains was cut from 39 to 28 percent. In the prior 12 months, the economy had grown 5.8 percent; in the next year and a half, it fell one percentage point.
In August 1981, the top rate was again cut, this time from 28 to 20 percent. In the prior 12 months, the economy had grown by 3.5 percent; in the following 12 months, it fell by 2.8 percent. Of course, these tax cuts may have suffered from accidentally bad timing in the business cycle, but many conservatives reject business cycle theory, claiming that tax cuts are more responsible for economic performance. In that case, they have a major refutation to explain.
By contrast, capital gains were raised in 1976, and economic growth jumped up from 3.6 percent in the previous two years to 5.2 percent in the next two years. Capital gains were again raised in 1986, from 20 to 28 percent, and economic growth rose from 2.2% in the previous year to 3.8% over the next two years.
The effect of capital gains tax changes on unemployment is even more striking. The unemployment rate rose sharply after both the 1978 and 1981 capital gains tax cuts. By contrast, the jobless rate fell significantly after the 1976 and 1986 capital gains tax hikes were passed.
Taxes on capital gains were significantly lower in the 80s than in the 70s, but savings and investment did not rise, as conservatives had advertised. In fact, they fell:
Disposable personal savings
1980 7.9%
1984 8.0
1985 6.4
1986 6.0
1987 4.3
1988 4.4
1989 4.0
1990 4.2
National Savings, public plus private
1970 - 1979 7.7%
1988 - 1990 3.0
Private investment
1970 - 1979 18.6%
1980 - 1992 17.4 By the end of the 80s, it had become clear that the rich were not investing their liberated tax dollars on "good" forms of investment, like jobs and productive tools and technology. Instead, the money went towards consumption, the good life, and economically meaningless investments like antiques and sport cars. The lack of investment in the national interest became so obvious that Democrats in congress actually proposed guidelines to encourage it. During the 1992 campaign, Bill Clinton proposed a massive infusion of public investment into the nation's aging infrastructure to compensate for the failure of the private sector to do so.
Proponents of a capital gains tax cut have no historical evidence to point to when trying to prove the benefits of these cuts. Given their track record of failure, any future proposals should be rejected out of hand.
