Chizik - why all the hate

Search

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
18,212
Tokens
I already can see some Chizik detractors on the board, not necessarily haters, but some who are not sold on equating his teams success with his coaching abilities. If you go back to his couple of years at Iowa State I can see where some of the criticism comes from especially since Iowa St has arguably done just as well or better without him. But maybe there is more to the story.


When Mack Brown went to North Caolina in 1988 he had coached at Appalachian St (6-5) and at Tulane ((11-23). His first 3 years at North Carolina he went (8-21) and then finished out at (61-22).
He had immediate success when he went to Texas in 1998 and has since gone (133-34) including this years fall to grace (5-7). Until this year he was acclaimed to be The reason for all the success he enjoyed until this year and his 5.1 million dollar salary reflects it.


Now back to Chizik. As shown by Mack's record there was very little in his first two years at North Carolina to brag about (2-20) but in his third and fourth years he west (6-4-1 and 7-7) and then in his fifth year went (9-3). I think that reflects his ability to recruit more than any thing else because his recruits helped improvement that reflected in the won-loss record. Recruiting is what Mack does best, that and assembling a good staff of assistants. Chizik recruited and landed Newton and the impact was immediate. At Iowa St it was difficult to attract quality players to play in the lackluster Big 12 North.


At this point Auburn and Oklahoma St are probably the biggest surprises of 2010. What they have in common is that both head coaches hired in offensive coordinators that are way ahead of the curve. The success of both head coaches is reflected in this success. So hiring the right assistants and recruiting
are key elements in having and sustaining a successful program. Players come and go but the consistency of a program may have more to do with the assistants than most people want to acknowledge. Players like Newton don't grow on trees and he might have turned Mack's team around in 2010 also, who knows. But the fact is that Auburn, by hook or by crook, landed Newton and he has thrived under the system (2nd year) installed by Gus Malazhn. The rest speaks for itself.


Is Mack as great as his greatest team or is he redefined by this years non bowling team. Is Chizik to be judged by his couple of years at Iowa St. No one is now interested in how Mack did in his early years which were in fact formative years and unsuccessful by any standard. In terms of recruiting what kid would not want to go to Auburn and jump on that band wagon. Recruiting is what will define Chizik as a coach and he landed the biggest prize in 2010. He has surrounded himself with good assistant coaches and is way ahead of Mack already. Auburn has a proud tradition like Texas, and it's support has been rekindled with this years success.


I think some people are trying to detract from Chiziks success and while I am just as amazed as everyone else I think he deserves all the attention he is getting. I am more amazed at the lack of attention that Mack's record has gotten this year. Chizik has a chance to establish a dynasty of sorts if he cashes in on the recruiting aspects the next couple of years. As to whether or not Auburn's success is more attributable to Chizik or to Newton, again Chizik brought Newton into the program, placed him in the hands of a masterful offensive coordinator, and rallied the team around him. To me that is what a head coach does and at this point Chizik is doing a damned good job.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
Handicapper
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
86,570
Tokens
I don't understand it either. Really became obvious this past weekend prior to the SEC Championship game. So much love for SS, who hasn't deserved such love for about 10 years now, while totally disrespecting Chizik.

Maybe Cam Newton has something to do with this.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
18,212
Tokens
I don't understand it either. Really became obvious this past weekend prior to the SEC Championship game. So much love for SS, who hasn't deserved such love for about 10 years now, while totally disrespecting Chizik.

Maybe Cam Newton has something to do with this.

I have been slow on the draw to give Chizik too much credit but by the same token that's just the way it usually works.
With a bowl win SS would have his first 10 win season at SC. What kills me is the salaries these guys make. Chizik is at $2,100,000.00 and SS is at 1,750,000 and Mack the Knife gets $5,100,000 and is going to keep it like he deserves it. As ridiuclous as all those salaries are it would seem that both Chizik and SS are underpaid by comparison. Makes me want to puke, $5,100,000 and he acts like he deserves it.
 

sdf

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
14,300
Tokens
What kills me is the salaries these guys make. Chizik is at $2,100,000.00 and SS is at 1,750,000 and Mack the Knife gets $5,100,000 and is going to keep it like he deserves it. As ridiuclous as all those salaries are it would seem that both Chizik and SS are underpaid by comparison. Makes me want to puke, $5,100,000 and he acts like he deserves it.

Mack has been to numerous BCS games, 2 MNC games and 1 MNC not to mention countless 10 win seasons in a row until 2010. Spurrier at SC hasnt breathed on a BCS game and as you mention finally won 10 games. Chizik had done nothing as a head coach until this year. I expect he'll get a nifty raise for 2011
 

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
4,555
Tokens
I sure am glad that Tennessee has never paid a player Paradise.

lol what in the fuck does that have to do with anything?

of course tennesee cheats, they all do

im not judging chizik im just answering the question that was asked...no need for pom poms, this isnt a fight club thread
 

RX Old-Timer
Joined
Sep 21, 2000
Messages
7,708
Tokens
Why not blame CBS for the SS "Love Fest". CBS is to the SEC what Fox News is to the Republican party. It's their product and they tend to slobber all over the knob and tickle the balls. Auburn, for all the winning that Pat Dye did, is not seen as an establishment school. They are not perceived to be Bama, Tenn, LSU, or even Florida. When they win, its typically followed by years of probation. What makes this funny is Florida before the Spurrier arrival was a joke of a progam. Spurriers run came when the SEC was laden with programs on probation, etc if I recall correctly. Not sure why UF gets put into that group.

The other thing is Chizik left ISU after winning only a handful of games and many did not think he warranted the Auburn job. I've heard guys on the radio in SEC country openly say things like, "Well when Malzahn takes another job or when Newton is one and done, it'll be back to mediocrity for Auburn. Auburn is often referred to as "West Georgia University". It's not a national thing, it's purely local to the south and I think CBS has bit on it.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
235
Tokens
Return to Mediocrity?

I guess that depends on how old you are.


  • You know who has the most undefeated seasons in the last 20 years? Auburn

  • Auburn has 6 SEC titles in the last 30 years, that's second to Florida's 9, that's more than Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, & Alabama.
  • Auburn has 9 wins or more in 17 of the last 30 years
  • Auburn is 17 - 13 vs Alabama
In my lifetime, I'd argue that's far from mediocrity. In that time they have been sanctioned with lost scholarships, etc. only once in 1992 I think.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
18,212
Tokens
I guess that depends on how old you are.


  • You know who has the most undefeated seasons in the last 20 years? Auburn
  • Auburn has 6 SEC titles in the last 30 years, that's second to Florida's 9, that's more than Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, & Alabama.
  • Auburn has 9 wins or more in 17 of the last 30 years
  • Auburn is 17 - 13 vs Alabama
In my lifetime, I'd argue that's far from mediocrity. In that time they have been sanctioned with lost scholarships, etc. only once in 1992 I think.

I see Auburn as an establishment school myself and I see Florida as a newer kid on the block who just went through some loaded talent and landed on reality street. I kind of saw Florida having a down season but I never in my wildest dreams thought Texas would not even make a bowl or lose 5 straight at home and Mack gets $5.1 milllion and laughs all the way to the bank with a clear conscience.

Of course if this Newton situation comes back to bite Auburn on the ass on down the road like the Bush deal at USC then that changes everything. I don't think it's a done deal. My problem with Mack's salary is that I don't think he is the best coach in America and he draws the top bucks (as far as I know).
 

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
4,555
Tokens
I guess that depends on how old you are.


  • You know who has the most undefeated seasons in the last 20 years? Auburn

  • Auburn has 6 SEC titles in the last 30 years, that's second to Florida's 9, that's more than Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, & Alabama.
  • Auburn has 9 wins or more in 17 of the last 30 years
  • Auburn is 17 - 13 vs Alabama
In my lifetime, I'd argue that's far from mediocrity. In that time they have been sanctioned with lost scholarships, etc. only once in 1992 I think.

good post and i agree on most points but you forgot a couple things ..auburn was banned from bowls on two different occasions in the 90's and once in the 80's....so actually THREE serious sanctions in the last 25 years

again, im not hatin on chizik or auburn just puttin the facts out there
 

New member
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
496
Tokens
When was the 2nd one in the 90s? Only one I remember was 1993 Eric Ramsey deal. We got a major sanction for buying him steaks to help him gain weight and paid a $300 +/- car payment for him. Real problem was that a few of the players on the team hated Pat Dye because he was a racist alcoholic. So it wasn't hard to talk them into wearing a wire to give him a little slap in the face
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
235
Tokens
I don't remeber the 2nd bowl ban, but that might just be me blocking it out. They got hit with a TV ban in 93 (which is mind blowing, don't think that will ever happen again) and a 2 year bowl ban.

Im defending my guy, but I appreciate all the back and forth on this board, gamblers know more about football than anyone else and I can get a national outlook, not just the small world view of crimson and white and orange and blue in the state of alabama.

I personally don't think Chizik seems like a guy who would pay players, but if he is "yes" man, and follows some higher up orders, then paying players is quite possible. AU has some shady mofos on the board of trustees and around the program. They need to clean the "good ol boys" out IMO. With the Tide coming off a NC and building momentum, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they were willing whatever it takes.

My overall opinion will definitely change depending on what happens in the Newton case, but as far as on the field coaching this year. I couldn't be more pleased with their performance. BTW, Tracy Rocker must be an unbelievable DL coach. He has turned ok talent into one of the best units and the best DL in the country. AU's pass defense sucks, but thier DL play has been superb.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
18,212
Tokens
I don't remeber the 2nd bowl ban, but that might just be me blocking it out. They got hit with a TV ban in 93 (which is mind blowing, don't think that will ever happen again) and a 2 year bowl ban.

Im defending my guy, but I appreciate all the back and forth on this board, gamblers know more about football than anyone else and I can get a national outlook, not just the small world view of crimson and white and orange and blue in the state of alabama.

I personally don't think Chizik seems like a guy who would pay players, but if he is "yes" man, and follows some higher up orders, then paying players is quite possible. AU has some shady mofos on the board of trustees and around the program. They need to clean the "good ol boys" out IMO. With the Tide coming off a NC and building momentum, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they were willing whatever it takes.

My overall opinion will definitely change depending on what happens in the Newton case, but as far as on the field coaching this year. I couldn't be more pleased with their performance. BTW, Tracy Rocker must be an unbelievable DL coach. He has turned ok talent into one of the best units and the best DL in the country. AU's pass defense sucks, but thier DL play has been superb.

Chizik would never have any specific knowledge (just like Pete Carroll) didn't. PC could look you in they eye and deny any knowledge of any misconduct but he knew better. I wouldn't want to know either if I was Chizik. I would make it known I wanted/needed Newton or whoever and it would proceed accordingly. This goes on and everyone knows it or at least knows better. That's why no one named Pinnochio will ever be a head coach.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
16
Tokens
maybe i was wrong and it was self imposed sanctions

why is this response not surprising? Just blurt something out, and hope noone calls you on it?

Just go to the Music City Bowl, take your butt-busting from a depleted UNC team and then all of your UT brethren can talk about how great your team looked in November. When you guys played three teams with a combined record of 13-35, and an avg. Team Defense of 85th in the nation. Good luck, it looks like Dooley is "killing it" on the recruiting trail.


Sam "Ace" Rothstein
Food & Beverage Coordinator, Tangiers Hotel & Casino
 

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
4,555
Tokens
so whos ghost is that ? per usual - this thread has NOTHING to do with tennessee of the tennessee vols, we are talking about Auburns coach Chizik

be a man and post with your real username
 

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
4,555
Tokens
maybe i got a lil confused, maybe not, who can blame me with auburns history....heres a good article excerpt about thier history:

Auburn's history of major violations includes getting slapped with three years' probation in 1957, three years' probation in 1958, and a two-year ban on postseason and television appearances in 1979.
Jordan.jpg

Shug Jordan . . . winningest football coach in Auburn history . . . namesake of Jordan-Hare Stadium . . . Auburn alumnus . . . during his tenure, Auburn was put on probation by the N.C.A.A.
Auburn was held responsible for unethical conduct in November 1991 and sanctioned for unethical conduct and a lack of institutional control in August 1993.
In the latter instance, the N.C.A.A. imposed punishments upon the Auburn athletic department just as Terry Bowden was about to begin his first season as the Tigers' head coach. Following his subsequent resignation under fire, Coach Bowden said on tape that A.U. boosters were funneling large amounts of cash to recruits.
TerryBowden.jpg

Terry Bowden . . . led Auburn to an undefeated season in 1993 . . . guided the Tigers to a 20-game winning streak . . . was taped making incriminating statements about Auburn's recruiting practices.
The most recent instance of wrongdoing on the Plains occurred when Auburn was placed on two years' probation on April 27, 2004. The N.C.A.A. news release announcing the latest penalties against the Plainsmen stated that, during the probationary period from April 2004 to April 2006, "the university shall continue to develop and implement a comprehensive educational program on NCAA legislation and submit periodic reports to the NCAA," including "a preliminary report that sets forth a schedule for establishing this compliance and educational program."
"At the end of the probationary period," concluded the N.C.A.A. (with emphasis added, by me), "the university's president will provide a letter to the committee affirming that the university's current athletics policies and practices conform to all requirements of NCAA regulations." Finally, the Division I Committee on Infractions noted:
As required by NCAA legislation for any institution involved in a major infractions case, Auburn University is subject to the provisions of NCAA Bylaw 19.5.2.3, concerning repeat violators for a five-year period beginning on the effective date of the penalties in this case, April 27, 2004.

If the Committee on Infractions determines "that a major violation has occurred within five years of the starting date of a major penalty," the institution guilty of such conduct shall be deemed a repeat violator and may be subject to increased penalties.
Pat_Dye.jpg

Pat Dye . . . won four conference championships in the 1980s . . . namesake of the playing field at Jordan-Hare Stadium . . . named S.E.C. Coach of the Year three times . . . during his tenure, Auburn was put on probation by the N.C.A.A.
Neither I nor anyone else learning of these latest accusations through the mainstream news media knows for certain whether there has been any wrongdoing here. However, it is clear that, if there was wrongdoing, Auburn University officials had no excuse for not knowing about it and putting a stop to it.
The institution's president and athletic director received clear direction from the N.C.A.A. to clean up what is historically the most shameful morass in intercollegiate athletics. Extra vigilance was warranted, in light of Auburn's frequent instances of recidivism.
If you, like C.F.R., found yourself "underwhelmed," you should consider yourself underinformed. The Tigers went undefeated while on probation in 1957. They did it again in 1993. What in the history of War Eagle athletics gives us any reason to doubt allegations that improprieties occurred while the Plainsmen were going undefeated in 2004?
Furthermore, what aspect of the present situation suggests that these allegations concern events which were either isolated or legitimate? This so-called "rogue professor" was, in fact, the interim director of Auburn University's sociology department, who took on numerous "directed reading" students.
One of the department head's colleagues, Paul Starr, was quoted in a news report as saying that a "professor normally doesn't take on many of these," yet, in this case, 15 such courses appear to have been offered. Another sociology professor, James Gundlach, is cited by The New York Times as the person who compiled the relevant records.
Professor Gundlach's statistics evidently indicated that Auburn football players with an average G.P.A. of 2.14 in their other classes had an average G.P.A. of 3.31 in the "directed reading" course. Unsurprisingly, this supposed athletic department "oversight" ostensibly involved Auburn's director of student athlete support services playing "an important role in funneling students to the sociology program."
However, this purportedly Oxford don-like method of individualized instruction was endorsed by a former A.U. football player. Carnell "Cadillac" Williams, a product of this one-on-one tutelage involving rigorous reading and critical analysis, eloquently expressed his articulate defense thusly: "I didn't do nothing illegal or anything like that."
The_Swamp_Florida_Field.jpg

You think this is "The Swamp"? Auburn . . . now that's a swamp!
Whether fire underlies the smoke surrounding Auburn University remains an open question, but there can be no doubt that, if fire is found to be present, the sordid history of A.U. athletics has left too much tinder lying about for the N.C.A.A. to do anything less than drop the hammer on these latest Yellowhammer State shenanigans.
 

New member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
1,610
Tokens
Chizik did what a good coach is supposed to do. He hired a fantastic staff and recruited very well. The result is a 13-0 season and heading to the BCS National Championship. He did what no other coach has ever done at Auburn (if they win). Any doubt that he is a good coach or not seem silly to me. Did he cheat or know about the Newton thing? Only he and a handful of others know for sure. If he did it will eventually come out, but until then my hat is off to Chizik and his staff for the season they have put together so far.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,116,669
Messages
13,535,783
Members
100,385
Latest member
swetatiwarib2b
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com