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Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
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All time high and you guys are nowhere to be found. At least come in and say that you were wrong or that you were early and this this rally is phoney.



Fishy predicted DOW 12k within the next year but at least he said that he now thinks it's an underdog to happen.



I think we are in a bull market and will stay in one unless we take on another war, or get hit with a major terrorist attack. I don't think the housing market woes will cause the market to drop more than 7% from here, but I could be wrong about that.



Where are my fellow Bulls?
 

Dr. Is IN
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I don't know where the other bears are, but I am here and I have said it before and will say it again...I am not Short anything and continue to make money on this rise UP UP and Away......I take profits every month and put it into oversea investements as I think the walls will come crashing down...I don't know when and I will never have less than 30% invested in the US(right now I am at 65%...about 2 years ago I was at 90-95 and 1 year ago I was at 80%.....So you can see where I am headed)

I do think that OTHER countries will ALSO lower there rates which will in turn "boost" our currency from the doldrums, BUT I think the real gains are going to be in oil, gold, natural gas, wheat, etc.......

But for right now continue to ride it up, BUT don't try and ride the wave all the way up, cause you know what happens you crash......I 'll be very happy when the dow reaches 15K and IT WILL...possibly by the end of Jan 08'.....but before that point I will be at 50% US investements and 50% spread around the world...taking profits and spreading it around
 

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Hitman, Woof, et al.....what do you think of this article

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</FORM>Monday, October 1, 2007, 3:39PM ET - U.S. Markets close in 21 minutes.

Jeremy Siegel, Ph.D. The Future for Investors


Don’t Blame the Central Banks -- Thank Them

by Jeremy Siegel, Ph.D.



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<DL class=ratingsdl><DT>Fair (20 Ratings) <DD class=bigstars4>1.8/5 </DD></DL>
<SCRIPT src="http://fe.shortcuts.search.yahoo.com/script?fr=csc_fin_pf" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT><!--Yahoo! Finance expert article module-->Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007, 12:00AM
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The ECB then immediately bought securities paying for" },"lw_1191266882_9": {"text": "collateral","extended": 0,"startchar": 2809,"endchar": 2818,"start": 2809,"end": 2818,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "PLACE","predictionProbability": "0.541625","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "they create; government securities, or just collateral from banks are all that is required. The day" },"lw_1191266882_10": {"text": "Federal Reserve","extended": 0,"startchar": 2900,"endchar": 2914,"start": 2900,"end": 2914,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.71695","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/government", "shortcuts:/us/tag/news/organization"],"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],"context": "is required. The day after the ECB acted, the Federal Reserve performed the same actions in the Fed funds" },"lw_1191266882_11": {"text": "offset","extended": 0,"startchar": 3187,"endchar": 3192,"start": 3187,"end": 3192,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "PLACE","predictionProbability": "0.681499","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "s actions pushed the rate below the target and offset some of the increased risk premiums that were" },"lw_1191266882_12": {"text": "liquidity","extended": 0,"startchar": 4000,"endchar": 4008,"start": 4000,"end": 4008,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.458094","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "This cascading effect can start a panic if more liquidity is not provided. Fortunately, the Bank" },"lw_1191266882_13": {"text": "central bank","extended": 0,"startchar": 4248,"endchar": 4259,"start": 4248,"end": 4259,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.522707","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "the \x22Lender of Last Resort\x22 function of the central bank. The BOE effectively provided Northern Rock" },"lw_1191266882_14": {"text": "stock market crash","extended": 0,"startchar": 4659,"endchar": 4676,"start": 4659,"end": 4676,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "","predictionProbability": "0","weight": 0.546516,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/extended_finance_terms"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "Lender of Last Resort function is. In 1929 a stock market crash turned into a liquidity crisis when depositors" },"lw_1191266882_15": {"text": "stock market","extended": 0,"startchar": 4772,"endchar": 4783,"start": 4772,"end": 4783,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "PLACE","predictionProbability": "0.551944","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "worried about the loans banks made against the stock market. But the Federal Reserve and other central" },"lw_1191266882_16": {"text": "Federal Reserve","extended": 0,"startchar": 4800,"endchar": 4814,"start": 4800,"end": 4814,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.893254","weight": 0.586527,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/organization/government", "shortcuts:/us/tag/news/organization"],"category": ["ORGANIZATION"],"context": "banks made against the stock market. But the Federal Reserve and other central banks did not lend money to" },"lw_1191266882_17": {"text": "central bank","extended": 0,"startchar": 5234,"endchar": 5245,"start": 5234,"end": 5245,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.459225","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "But these fears are misguided. In no way do the central bank s actions \x22bail out\x22 the sub prime lenders." },"lw_1191266882_18": {"text": "capital markets","extended": 0,"startchar": 5354,"endchar": 5368,"start": 5354,"end": 5368,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "ORGANIZATION","predictionProbability": "0.700243","weight": 0.913109,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive"],"category": ["CONCEPT"],"context": "Those that bought these securities through the capital markets will suffer the full impact of their imprudent" },"lw_1191266882_19": {"text": "Federal Open Market Committee","extended": 0,"startchar": 5722,"endchar": 5750,"start": 5722,"end": 5750,"extendedFrom": "","predictedCategory": "","predictionProbability": "0","weight": 0.25,"type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/finance/glossary_case_nonsensitive", "shortcuts:/us/tag/news/organization"],"category": ["CONCEPT", "ORGANIZATION"],"context": "to secure a unanimous policy directive from the Federal Open Market Committee is impressive. The Fed stanched a contagion" }};</SCRIPT>The stock market's electrifying response to the dramatic 50 basis point reduction in the Fed Funds rate engineered by Ben Bernanke at the September 18 FOMC meeting amply demonstrates the power of modern central banks.
And the Fed is not the only central bank taking action. The European Central Bank (ECB) was the first to intervene in the market last August when the sub-prime crisis caused the cost of European bank reserves to soar.
More recently the Bank of England (BOE) has de facto guaranteed the deposits of Northern Rock, a British mortgage lending bank and has reportedly lent the bank over 3 billion pounds. Central banks are stopping financial panics dead in their tracks, stabilizing credit costs, and mitigating the impact of this crisis on the real economy.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that central banks can completely prevent the boom and bust cycles that have plagued market economies from time immemorial.
There was very little that the Fed could do to prevent the 1990 recession caused by the real estate bust and soaring oil prices triggered by Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. Nor could the central bank prevent the 2000 recession caused by the popping of the technology bubble and 9/11. But central banks have reduced the severity of recessions by preventing a financial panic from developing into a full-blown economic collapse.
What's the Magic?
Why can central banks stop financial crises? Because they have a monopoly on the supply of the ultimate source of liquidity: the currency that forms the base of our monetary systems. "Liquidity" refers to an asset that can easily be transformed into purchasing power. And no asset that is better suited to that function than central bank money.
This is how central banks calmed the crisis. The first signs of disrupted markets appeared in August when the European Central Bank saw the interest rate at which banks were borrowing reserves from each other on the overnight market soar far above the rate that they had targeted in their monetary operations. This meant that the banks' demand for reserves had jumped beyond the supply that was available. The ECB then immediately bought securities, paying for them by crediting reserves to the banks. This increase in the supply of reserves pushed the rate back down to the ECB's target.
Where do the central banks get such reserves? They create them "at will" by either buying bonds, paying with newly-created reserves or loaning banks reserves against the banks' assets. Modern central banks do not require gold or silver to back the money they create; government securities, or just collateral from banks are all that is required.
The day after the ECB acted, the Federal Reserve performed the same actions in the Fed funds market, the U.S. market for bank reserves. In fact, the Fed decided to create more reserves than were needed to keep the rate at the then-targeted 5.25% level. The Fed's actions pushed the rate below the target and offset some of the increased risk premiums that were being demanded by the lending banks.
The Bank of England confronted a different problem. Lacking the same comprehensive deposit insurance scheme that prevails in the U.S., depositors in Northern Rock, a large saving bank that lent in the sub-prime market, feared for the safety of their deposits and rushed to convert their deposits into hard currency.
Unfortunately, banks have only so much currency on hand and to raise more they would have had to sell assets, or worse yet, call in their loans. This is what starts a financial panic, as those borrowers who have their loans called in turn try to raise cash by selling assets or borrowing from some other institution. This cascading effect can start a panic if more liquidity is not provided.
Fortunately, the Bank of England announced that it would back Northern Rock's deposits by lending against the institution's assets. This is called exercising the "Lender of Last Resort" function of the central bank. The BOE effectively provided Northern Rock all the currency it needed to satisfy depositors' withdrawals. Once depositors saw that the money was there, the panic subsided and the rush towards liquidity eased.
Avoiding a 1930s Disaster
It is very important to understand how significant this Lender of Last Resort function is. In 1929 a stock market crash turned into a liquidity crisis when depositors worried about the loans banks made against the stock market. But the Federal Reserve and other central banks did not lend money to the banks that were besieged by depositors. The Fed had claimed at that time that the banks that made bad loans should fail and should not be bailed out.
We hear the same objections today. Critics claim that the Fed is "bailing out" the sub-prime lenders and encouraging risky lending. But these fears are misguided. In no way do the central bank's actions "bail out" the sub-prime lenders. Those that bought these securities through the capital markets will suffer the full impact of their imprudent actions, as central banks offered no reserves to lenders outside the banking system. And those banks who made bad loans will also suffer impairment of their capital base.
The Fed made the right move at the right time and Bernanke's ability to secure a unanimous policy directive from the Federal Open Market Committee is impressive. The Fed stanched a contagion that threatened to turn a problem isolated to the real estate sector into a full blown liquidity crisis and recession.
The world's other central banks have also acted accordingly by supplying all the liquidity needed to keep credit costs under control and assure the stability of their banking systems. Thanks to their concerted actions, the sub-prime crisis should not turn into a recession.
 

Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
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Thanks for the reply Joe:


I read the article and this part is scary:


"Unfortunately, banks have only so much currency on hand and to raise more they would have had to sell assets, or worse yet, call in their loans. This is what starts a financial panic, as those borrowers who have their loans called in turn try to raise cash by selling assets or borrowing from some other institution. This cascading effect can start a panic if more liquidity is not provided.
Fortunately, the Bank of England announced that it would back Northern Rock's deposits by lending against the institution's assets. This is called exercising the "Lender of Last Resort" function of the central bank. The BOE effectively provided Northern Rock all the currency it needed to satisfy depositors' withdrawals. Once depositors saw that the money was there, the panic subsided and the rush towards liquidity eased."





The only point I can argue is that most people that I know have paid their mortgages and didn't even default this summer. I think it was Crammer who said that if the worst happened, only 7 million homeloans would default in the US which I agree with. I think going forward the banks are going to have much tighter lending restrictions to "iffy" borrowers and that subprime lendings are all but finished (going forward). I think banks have learned a valuable lesson this summer and will have much different criteria for valuing homes for loans.




What kind of crash do you see coming? Are you exepecting a more than 50% crash and what is your timeframe just out of curiosity?
 

Dr. Is IN
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Hitman I do NOT see anywhere close to a 50% crash......BUT I can see a 20% drop....I could NOT tell you when as the fed MIGHT just lower rates again and we will then see another run up...THING is this...rates keep getting cut....market keeps going up....BUT dollar keeps going Down...So factor in inflation, devalued dollar, and taxes on your earnings and how much do you have left??

MY big thing is even though the US indicies continue to climb....Look at the rates they are climbing compared with other indicies...For one Emerging markets have KIlled the US....We are talking a SOLID 40% gain OR MORE for the LAst 5 years! That's moving up...So I am NOT the biggest bear.....You can think of me as someone who thinks the grass is greener on the precious metals, emerging markets, commodities side......Also as an aside I am looking into Developed Markets and putting some more into them as they have produced a solid 25% gain for the last 5 years(I would be pulling some out of the emerging markets and putting more into the developed markets)

So HITMAN as you can see the Dow and other US indicies have UNDERPERFORMED these two areas and I feel will CONTINUE to do so in the future.........

Tell me some areas you are looking into for the 4th quarter and beyond??

I enjoy reading both Woof(BIG Bear) and yourself(BIG Bull)....I fall somewhere in between.......
 

Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
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Right now I'm in growth stocks. My favorite holding (NVT) just got bought out today and I'm kind of searching for a new place. I don't really look for sectors to hide or park but I try to pick what I think are great "stories". If I had to pick a sector for the next 3-12 months I would probably pick the ETF (EEM) which is pretty much every emerging market minus the U.S.




My top holding is ISRG and if they report a bad quarter on the 19th, I will sell half of my position and book close to a 100% gain (depending on how far it drops) and lower my cost on the other half to near zero bucks per share.


I'm looking at a few right now, but I normally buy on bad market days when everything is getting drilled.

A few I am eyeing right now are Under Armor, American Eagle, and Sigma Designs.



If the market keeps ripping I will add a few puts of some stock but I don't know what yet. My last short was Radio Shack 3 months ago and it was a nice winner.




I do love to see the U.S. market at all time highs because it means normally that most of the people (friends and family) I know are doing well.
 

Dr. Is IN
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Hitman two stocks that I continue to add are CHT adn GLNG...Both of these have done well and More importantly pay GREAT dividends...GLNG pays in the 'hood of $2.25 a share...love it for an inexpensive stock...Also love the fact that liquid gas is becoming used more and more....CHT is a nice sector play with the olympics coming and CHINA growing like its on steroids...

As far as you eem been in that since Feb 05' it is simply amazing!!!...I CONTINUE to take profits off the top and plave them in some municipal bonds to protect my gains......Also in Vanguard's emerging markets which is also a big winner the last 3-4 years returing 30% gains every year
 

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if you factor in the falling dollar and the inflation you lost money......congrats then i guess
 

Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
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if you factor in the falling dollar and the inflation you lost money......congrats then i guess





No doubt about that. The dollar is at an all time low. Inflation is at a record high. Houses can't even be given away. Nobody can get a loan. There is no more middleclass. Over 5% of the U.S. population is unemployed. Everything sucks big time.


Just curious Tanner, where are you investing your money to fight inflation and the falling dollar? I would imagine that someone like yourself saw all of this coming 2 years ago and you were in gold and oil. Help the rest of us simpletons out because we are losing money hand over fist.
 

Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
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Tanner:


Weren't you calling for DOW 10k in August? You can't have it both ways either inflation/the falling dollar lifts the DOW higher (but not really higher based on the dollar), or the DOW tanks to 10k.


You will always win any argument because I've never seen you admit that you were wrong, or any time the market makes a new high, you can just claim that inflation is the reason for the lift and that it will tank at a later date so you will be right on both fronts.


I would love to know where you are invested, because if you are carrying around more than 1,000 in cash or have any assets based in the USD, you are getting destroyed daily by inflation (by your own accord).



I'm trying to learn how to make the most money possible by investing and I need your wisdom.



Thanks
 

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