An Excellent Historical Primer for People Who Want to Change Arab Countries

[Phaedrus]

From the Gulf News, an excellent piece by Iranian write Amir Taheri entitled "Imported Ideals Die Quickly in Arab Lands." It looks at more than a century's worth of fruitless attempts to impose various Western ideals -- from both without and within the Arab world -- onto the diffuse and complicated society of the Middle East. An itneresting read for both libs and cons alike, especially if you want to spout off about what you think *should be done* in the Middle East.


Phaedrus

 

[sphincter]

is this the guy that coined the phrase,"de-nial is a river in egypt?"......god,i`ve never read anything by anyone that shirks the responsibility of an entire race,religion,region,people like this article does.....

can the governments and peoples of the middle east take any credit or blame for the state of affairs in their region?....are the arab peoples incapable of handling their own affairs?....

is this some sort of pseudo-intellectual racism or anti-arab dogma....i`ve never read anything that was meant to alleviate any sense of self-responsibilty that in reality comes off as utter condescension and a sense that arab people are idiotic morons that have no clue as to how to conduct a productive civilized society.....

the cradle of civilization?......not according to this writer.....to him,nothing more than western pawns.....lesser people unable proceed past the middle ages on their own......

maybe he has a point.....take away the oil,and what do you have?....pistachio nuts?.....poverty levels and educational levels that are ridiculous compared to western standards....

women treated like chattel.....religious zealotry and tribalism.....surely these existed way before the west ever became a factor.....and these things haven`t changed.....

i really enjoy phaedrus` opinions....he is obviously a smart cookie.....i have to say,though, i think this article is drecch.....

an attempted rationalization that reads like an insult to arabs and muslims..

"Before we speculate about what this great new idea might be, let us review some of its predecessors"........

did this guy ever get to the "great new idea?"......i guess he was referring to democracy.....i was trying to figure out what this guy`s plan was to mobilise arab and islamic energies....did i miss it?....

i must have...

[This message was edited by sphincter on June 13, 2003 at 03:13 AM.]

 

[Phaedrus]

Taheri's point, as expressed in each example, is the tendency to fail to put things in context in the West's attempt to "civilise" Arab lands ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What he [Jamaleddin] did not realise was that the western model was the fruit of centuries of development in which Europeans had first defined their national identity and, then, created modern states to express it. Arab and other Muslim peoples of the Middle East however, put the cart before the horse: creating the state first and then looking for a nation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also a very interesting point (from a person who actually lived through it, unlike myself) about Khomeini, in that he and other uber-Islamic rulers bore more semblance to Western dictators than anything in the theology of Islam, and certainly more than in any leaders or rulers in Arabic history.


Phaedrus

 

[sphincter]

my comments weren`t a shot at you,phaedrus(i know you understand that)....

i have to say that i`m getting a little weary of this amorphous thing called islam.....it`s a religion of peace.....it`s a religion of violence....it`s basically whatever suits one`s agenda...

sort of a microcosm of the arab stance on the israel-palestinian conflict....the leaders claim to want peace and talk a great game....then the uncontrollable shadow entities like hamas kill innocent civilians whenever theres a serious attempt at a peace process...

while the arafat`s run interference for the terrorists and their leaders.....at least the blame for israeli actions can be put directly on the israeli leadership....

the arabs seem to have this neat ponzi scheme going and never seem to be willing to take some sort of control of these zealous monsters...just sort of wringing their hands and blaming israel...

not passing judgement on who is right or wrong in this debacle.....just saying that it`s a very convenient scenario to have a sort of shadowy straw man and not to take responsibility for the actions of these terrorists.....


and expect israel to sit on their hands as their civilians are slaughtered by religious fanatics....

i see no end.....

also,where are the palestinian`s arab brethren when they so desperately need them?....couldn`t they provide some sort of economic aid to the beleaguered palestinians?.....at least alleviate some of the horrible conditions they live under?......maybe the rich saudi princes could get up off some of that enormous wealth and help their arab brothers in a positive way instead of just setting up a terrorist breeding ground in their own country....

i have to admit...the middle east befuddles me...

very strange....