abortion and obama's healthcare bill

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I dont believe life starts until birth. I believe that telling a person what to do with their body is meddling.


The count on convicted criminals in Dallas county alone that have been proven innocent since DNA testing is around 20.

Police are under pressure to clear crimes from their docket. In the case of major crimes the pressure is immense.

Prosecutors are under the same pressure to get convictions.

To think that innocent people are not found guilty is beyond naive and approaching stupid.

But even beyond that there are all of the automatic appeals and every other thing that has been put in place to try and keep all these eager beavers from frying innocent people.

So, the cost of getting a capitol case through is phenomenal. Far more expensive than permanent incarceration.

If you had rapped and murdered some young girl, would you rather be kept in separate incarceration on death row for years as the legal system went through its gyrations or be placed in general population for the rest of your unimaginable horrid life?
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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nah, i've seen enough of your posts to know where you stand on the issue, although i do feel you're a bit facetious sometimes. but you always back your views up, so i can respect that. personally, my symapthies to the woman involved are not as kind as yours, but i guess that's why people like to debate...

the way the posts fell higher in the thread, it appeared I was writing that to you...but actually it was to "ArtiesLiver".

But in response to your comment above, I'd say that for me, it has little to do with sympathy and more to do with respect. Whether a woman wishes to carry a pregnancy to term and all that entails is absolutely none of my business.
 

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well sir, i appreciate you stepping into the argument. of course i disagree with your philosophy.

considering today's technology, our only death sentences should be reserved for those who are guilty without a doubt. In the interests of keeping this short so i don't pass out, let me say this: why choose to protest the executions of 100 men when only one of them might be innocent, while at the same time turn away from the deaths of a hundred viable children who are innocent beyond the shadow of a doubt?
 

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I realize you said Government funded, but if it was Government run, there would be nothing close to resembling an Express Lane. Maybe a slow and slower lane, but gov't and express don't coexist.

The "Express Lane" is more a euphemism than literal...heh

It's offered up as a reminder that for those women who decide to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, the sooner they get it done, the better for all concerned.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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..... why choose to protest the executions of 100 men when only one of them might be innocent, while at the same time turn away from the deaths of a hundred viable children who are innocent beyond the shadow of a doubt?

Speaking for myself, it's because I consider the lives of living men and women to be worthy of defense.

I do not give that same level of concern to an unwanted embryo or fetus.
 

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the way the posts fell higher in the thread, it appeared I was writing that to you...but actually it was to "ArtiesLiver".

But in response to your comment above, I'd say that for me, it has little to do with sympathy and more to do with respect. Whether a woman wishes to carry a pregnancy to term and all that entails is absolutely none of my business.

yeah, i realized that after i posted a response.

it's a moral argument, and in the end there's no right or wrong when you think about the diversity of our society. it's a matter of what you believe. it would be a mistake for our government to fund this with taxpayer money. i don't think this will happen as the more moderate democrats have spoken against it, but.... wow if it does happen....

as far as respect, my religion tells me life begins at conception. i take this to mean that when i bust one in my woman and it gets where it's going, that it's a life. i'll live this in my life, but i wouldn't impose it on others out of respect. but once that bastard has a heartbeat and can survive outside the womb, as far as i'm concerned it's a child....
 

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Speaking for myself, it's because I consider the lives of living men and women to be worthy of defense.

I do not give that same level of concern to an unwanted embryo or fetus.

i consider the life of a man who shoots a 7/11 clerk in cold blood to be worth much less than the life of an unborn child
 

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well sir, i appreciate you stepping into the argument. of course i disagree with your philosophy.

considering today's technology, our only death sentences should be reserved for those who are guilty without a doubt. In the interests of keeping this short so i don't pass out, let me say this: why choose to protest the executions of 100 men when only one of them might be innocent, while at the same time turn away from the deaths of a hundred viable children who are innocent beyond the shadow of a doubt?

Those people who were proven inocent by DNA were 1st found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury.

If it cost more to execute them than it does to incarcerate them, why do you have such a bloodthirsty attitude?
 

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Those people who were proven inocent by DNA were 1st found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury.

If it cost more to execute them than it does to incarcerate them, why do you have such a bloodthirsty attitude?

i find it ironic that you would call me bloodthirsty considering some of the pro choice comments i have on here. that said, i would gladly make a trade and abolish the death penalty if abortion would be abolished as well. would you agree?
 

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i find it ironic that you would call me bloodthirsty considering some of the pro choice comments i have on here. that said, i would gladly make a trade and abolish the death penalty if abortion would be abolished as well. would you agree?
To want a person to answer to you and other judgmental control freaks before she can have an unwanted growth removed from her body and then compare it to your uncontrollable blood lust for revenge is just asinine.
 

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To want a person to answer to you and other judgmental control freaks before she can have an unwanted growth removed from her body and then compare it to your uncontrollable blood lust for revenge is just asinine.

lol. no one has to answer to me except my young rottie. i'll be the first to say the world doesn't revolve around me. my disdain for murderers seems to match your disdain for the unborn.
 

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I believe you should have all rights and privileges to any growth that that you develop in your body and find it contemptible that you would not extend that same right to others.
 

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I believe you should have all rights and privileges to any growth that that you develop in your body and find it contemptible that you would not extend that same right to others.

i try to be civil. you have your opinion and i have mine sir. i guess we've argued our reasons to a point where we start calling each other names. i don't find your opinion contemptable, although i strongly disagree with it. that's why we vote, that's why we promote our ideas, and that's why we argue. this debate will be just as heated long after we're gone.
 

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Any chance of your cock going on welfare because it is homeless and unwanted?
 

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....i would gladly make a trade and abolish the death penalty if abortion would be abolished as well. would you agree?

Seriously?

You would endorse a public policy that would arrest, prosecute as child killers and imprison women who elect to terminate an unwanted pregnancy? And of course such a policy would have to also arrest, prosecute and imprison all doctors, medical staff who participate. And don't forget the spouses, family members and friends who might help finance the procedure.

All of them would be subject to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment if abortion were to be made illegal.
 

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Seriously?

You would endorse a public policy that would arrest, prosecute as child killers and imprison women who elect to terminate an unwanted pregnancy? And of course such a policy would have to also arrest, prosecute and imprison all doctors, medical staff who participate. And don't forget the spouses, family members and friends who might help finance the procedure.

All of them would be subject to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment if abortion were to be made illegal.

i almost forgot about this thread. good thing i scrolled down. it is hard to think logically and then give an honest and logical answer to your question -- my 2 o' clock start time doesn't help much.

where do my symapthies lie? they lie with the unborn child sleeping in its mother's womb. i have no idea what goes through a mother's mind when she decides to go through with the procedure -- i have read where most women who make this decision are forever haunted by it. holy fuck, i just opened the first pack in my carton of marlboros and pulled out a .50 off a pack coupon. now, if every pack has the same coupon i'll be in business. anyways....

i believe that life begins at conception because that is what my religion tells me. to be honest, i don't believe everyone should be held to that standard. therefore, in the earliest stages of developmet of the embryo i could understand the argument of someone who is pro choice. not agree with or support it, mind you, but if i lived my day to day life in strict accordance with my Christian faith i would not be posting in a gambler's forum. i will continue to vote in accordance with those who share my views, i will respectfully debate those who don't, and i will acknowledge if someone's perspective can somehow penetrate my own and cause me to take a second look.

however, once that embryo has developed to a point where that child has a heartbeat, where it has been scientifically proven that the child not only has developed its own relexes but is also dreaming, then i consider that to be a baby. a fucking baby. some people argue the baby would have no chance of surviving outside the womb unless it was given life support. i made the comparison in another thread that asked the question if you were involved in a nasty automobile accident and you could not survive without life suppport for several months, but after that time you could function, should you be left to die?

young, unwed, pregnant mothers are nothing new in our society, but the numbers keep going up. the population keeps going up, naturally leading to more "unsuitable" mothers becoming pregnant. our government passes laws restricting tobacco companies from advertising in ways in which it deems target our children, yet freedom of speech allows all kinds of garbage to be broadcast to our kids that promote promiscuity. sex sells. the advances in our technology only ensure that this continues. i would bet my left nut if i hadn't lost it in a poker game that more than half of those who downloaded and watched the erin andrews video were also strongly against the bush wiretaps, claiming it a breach of privacy and a violation of the Constitution.

anyways, in regards to prosecuting those who choose to have abortions. tough one there. realistically, it will never happen. i would rather more of my tax dollars be spent on the alternatives. allow a woman with an unwanted child to sign up for assistance to carry her through term. team her up with someone willing to adopt the child. pass restrictions on abortion clinics that make them harder to be accessed much as the government is passing restrictions on everything else. force bus drivers to play less objectionable music while they ferry the children to school. don't condone abortion by paying for it with federal dollars. challenge parents to be more involved in the lives of their children.

now to answer your question in the hypothetical sense that a mother should be charged with a crime if she chose to end the life of a living child while the child was in her womb? if such a law existed, then my answer sir would be yes. i would favor that.
 

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SD: anyways, in regards to prosecuting those who choose to have abortions. tough one there. realistically, it will never happen.

Bar: Thankfully, I concur......but

SD: ....a mother should be charged with a crime if she chose to end the life of a living child while the child was in her womb? if such a law existed, then my answer sir would be yes. i would favor that.

Bar: Your honest response is appreciated. And it's a reminder to me and others who value the American system which permits a woman to choose whether or not she will carry a pregnancy to term. At times in the past few years, it's been easy to get lazy and act as if legal abortion will always exist.

While that's likely 98% certain, the existence of people who would support arresting, prosecuting and imprisoning a woman who chose to terminate a pregnancy does give us pause and helps us to know how important it is to continue to back those who publicly stand against such proposals. (Which I realize you yourself are not precisely doing at this moment)
 

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