AA in poker

[1cheater]

looked for other info on him folding during a tourney and could not find it







Phil Hellmuth's Starting Hands

By Alan Cooper


“Tight is right and supertight is better than right.” Phil Hellmuth in Play Poker Like the Pros. <CENTER><TABLE borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 width=238 border=1>
<TBODY><TR brodercolor="#cccccc"><TD colSpan=2>

Top 10 Starting Hands for Beginners​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD width=37>1</TD><TD width=185>AA</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>2</TD><TD>KK</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>3</TD><TD>QQ</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>4</TD><TD>AK</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>5</TD><TD>JJ</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>6</TD><TD>10 10 </TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>7</TD><TD>99</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>8</TD><TD>88</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>9</TD><TD>AQ</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD>10</TD><TD>77</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD colSpan=2>

Additional Starting Hands for Intermediate Players​

</TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD></TD><TD>66, 55, 44, 33, 22 </TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD></TD><TD>Ax suited </TD></TR><TR borderColor=#cccccc><TD></TD><TD>KQ</TD></TR>




</TABLE></CENTER>
Phil Hellmuth guarantees that if you limit yourself to playing only these ten starting hands, you can crush any average game. Hellmuth suggest you can play these hands from any position, and should almost always raise and rereaise with these hands.
Sounds simple enough. But if poker is really that easy, wouldn’t everyone make it to the final table of the World Series of Poker? Is Hellmuth’s simple system really that powerful?

Dante, have you seen Phil play High Stakes Poker on that Gameshow channel? he's a fucking joke, the other players just stare and drool at his chips and love him at the table. Don't let Phil fool you, he's a fucking terrible "cash game" card player, fucking terrible. Tournaments are a different story.

 

[mj23]

Exactly well said!!

 

[primetime21+]

I am not defending the idea of folding AA preflop in any situation, but to make this more clear on what Primetime said- " if 8 of them went all in he would fold. "

Arguing with someone that can't read can be frustrating at times. thank you for clearing it up.

 

[WVU]

This topic has been debated on every forum I have been a part of. Sometimes the math calls for a fold. You are not 4 to 1 fav if there are multiple players with a pocket pair. Chip stack and payout are key figures in your decision. It is rare, but it does happen that a fold is mathematically the correct call. Those who can't see this are green. It took me years of playing poker to figure this out myself. I used to be the guy arguing that a,a should never fold preflop.

 

[Matt24]

This topic has been debated on every forum I have been a part of. Sometimes the math calls for a fold. You are not 4 to 1 fav if there are multiple players with a pocket pair. Chip stack and payout are key figures in your decision. It is rare, but it does happen that a fold is mathematically the correct call. Those who can't see this are green. It took me years of playing poker to figure this out myself. I used to be the guy arguing that a,a should never fold preflop.

It is never correct to fold AA preflop unless its a satellite. It's that simple, I don't even know how this is a discussion. Even if you are close to the money, big deal, if you have AA, get it in and double/triple and go for the win, which is mathematically correct to go for.

There have been 2 articles lately on cardplayer where it talked about taking coinflips early. One great player said he'd take a 57/43 on the first hand of a $10k event.

 

[Fishhead]

Matt, you are correct but you are missing some considerations that may arise I believe that justify folding........which were stated in my previous two posts.

 

[Fishhead]

Matt, you are correct but you are missing some considerations that may arise I believe that justify folding........which were stated in my previous two posts.

This somewhat reminds of the questions we sometimes get here regarding HEDGING sports wagers.

Many times, the ULTIMATE deciding factor is the situation of the gambler themselves and/or their mental/financial state.

Sometimes it is in the best interest for them to hedge, even though they are taking the worst of it in reality.

 

[primetime21+]

Matt, i dont know why you don't get the fact that some people play differently than you. There are times when i am in a hand and i am so sure that i am good, but i choose to lay it down because i don't "feel" it. There are times i am not in the mood to gamble. Then there are times when i am willing to move all in with nothing but a bluff for no reason other than i feel like bluffing.

With that being said i have never folded AA prelfop and i dont invision doing so, but if the situation occurs and me or one of the others decide to fold AA preflop the world won't come to an end. We all can get up from a tournament or a table and look back on missed oppurtunites. It happens. I am sure you have made bad decisions over the years. Perhaps called bets that someone else wouldn't even think about calling. You may have had your reasons. But that is what makes poker, poker. Every situation is different.

 

[707782]

Wow, I never espect my stupid rant thread would get this much attention and reply...LOL.....

Anyway, won 1 out of six times when have AA preflop.

 

[Matt24]

Matt, i dont know why you don't get the fact that some people play differently than you. There are times when i am in a hand and i am so sure that i am good, but i choose to lay it down because i don't "feel" it. There are times i am not in the mood to gamble. Then there are times when i am willing to move all in with nothing but a bluff for no reason other than i feel like bluffing.

With that being said i have never folded AA prelfop and i dont invision doing so, but if the situation occurs and me or one of the others decide to fold AA preflop the world won't come to an end. We all can get up from a tournament or a table and look back on missed oppurtunites. It happens. I am sure you have made bad decisions over the years. Perhaps called bets that someone else wouldn't even think about calling. You may have had your reasons. But that is what makes poker, poker. Every situation is different.

We are talking about folding AA preflop in a tourney(non sat) that is all. Yes people play differently than me, yes ive mad bad decisions. But I have never folded the nuts, not folding the nuts to me is a pretty clearcut decision.

Btw, if anyone wants to sweat, I'm 4th in chips in the Party Super, 59 left. Carson2Chad

I guess I can see when you can fold AA. Say you have 100 chips and the bb is 10000, and 2 players are all in in front of you and teh jump is huge. there you go, muck AA pf there.

 

[peskypup]

I think people are missing the point. If you are one of the best players in a 10 or 20 player sit'n'go and it is one of the early hands and someone goes all-in pre flop, you can be 90% confident that player is a clueless maniac.

Unless I get dealt trash hands for the next hour, I am 90% to 95% favourite to steadily drain that player of chips if he or she sticks around long enough, and by taking less risk. Doubling up in the early stages simply does not give you that much of an edge, all the action takes place when the blinds are much bigger and there's only 3 or 4 players left. What you really want is 3 or 4 good hands in the early stages where you risk about 500 chips on each and steadily build your stack without risking elimination.

I'd compare it to a golf tournament. In the early stages no prizes are handed out, the name of the game is survival. You can ensure that you will not win the event in rounds 1 and 2 but no-one can ensure they will win it.

In a cash game it is a no brainer, you are all-in against anyone with AA pre-flop if that is the way the opponent wants it.

 

[Kruser6]

I think people are missing the point. If you are one of the best players in a 10 or 20 player sit'n'go and it is one of the early hands and someone goes all-in pre flop, you can be 90% confident that player is a clueless maniac.

If you are folding AA preflop in a 10 or 20 person SNG then sorry to say but you are not one of the best players, you are the clueless maniac:monsters-

 

[Matt24]

I think people are missing the point. If you are one of the best players in a 10 or 20 player sit'n'go and it is one of the early hands and someone goes all-in pre flop, you can be 90% confident that player is a clueless maniac.

Unless I get dealt trash hands for the next hour, I am 90% to 95% favourite to steadily drain that player of chips if he or she sticks around long enough, and by taking less risk. Doubling up in the early stages simply does not give you that much of an edge,.

This is all drastically false. How are you going to be the one that gets all that guys chips? Is he not going to pass them around to everyone else as well? And when are you going to get your chips in the middle, on the river when you have the nuts? Put me(a professional poker player) with 9 morons, and I am still not good enough to pass up 4-1 edges on the first hand. Doubling up early gives you a very nice edge, there is math on this, which I don't have on me, and am not going to search for, but it can be found.

 

[quantumleap]

This is all drastically false. How are you going to be the one that gets all that guys chips? Is he not going to pass them around to everyone else as well? And when are you going to get your chips in the middle, on the river when you have the nuts? Put me(a professional poker player) with 9 morons, and I am still not good enough to pass up 4-1 edges on the first hand. Doubling up early gives you a very nice edge, there is math on this, which I don't have on me, and am not going to search for, but it can be found.

At time you are going to lose this hand in a tournament and when you do you are out. I think it would be better to play it safer during a tournament. You can always get those idiots' money at a later time and still be safe which is a higher percentage of staying in longer. That is what tournaments are all about.

 

[peskypup]

overall though this is pretty academic. You will get AA once every 221 hands, of those you will be put all-in with a decent sized stack probably 10% of the time.

So whether I am making the big error in folding, or others are making it in calling against the maniac it will not make much difference. It is one misplayed hand every 2,200 hands or so.

To some extent it depends on your style. Mine is to play conservatively early on and build a tight image which is ideal for bluffing at larger pots in the later stages. Going all-in on an early hand does nothing for this image even if you win.

But if you have a more aggressive style then showing you are willing to call all-in bets is probably good for that image.

 

[tkf18ny]

I think people are missing the point. If you are one of the best players in a 10 or 20 player sit'n'go and it is one of the early hands and someone goes all-in pre flop, you can be 90% confident that player is a clueless maniac.

Unless I get dealt trash hands for the next hour, I am 90% to 95% favourite to steadily drain that player of chips if he or she sticks around long enough, and by taking less risk. Doubling up in the early stages simply does not give you that much of an edge, all the action takes place when the blinds are much bigger and there's only 3 or 4 players left. What you really want is 3 or 4 good hands in the early stages where you risk about 500 chips on each and steadily build your stack without risking elimination.

I'd compare it to a golf tournament. In the early stages no prizes are handed out, the name of the game is survival. You can ensure that you will not win the event in rounds 1 and 2 but no-one can ensure they will win it.

In a cash game it is a no brainer, you are all-in against anyone with AA pre-flop if that is the way the opponent wants it.

Thats total bullshit. Noone is 90-95% favored over anyone especially as blinds move up and stacks get shorter.

 

[peskypup]

Let me put this in a way non-poker guys can understand. If you are Tiger Woods would you rather play 8 9hole shootouts against the field, with the top 128 making the second 9, the top 64 the third 9 and so on?

Or would you sooner go 72 holes of strokeplay?

I am confident that my chances of beating a maniac in the long run are considerably better than 80%.

 

[peskypup]

Another way of putting this:

if I go all-in with AA in the first hand of a 10 player sit and go I am 80% favourite to double up, 20% likely to be eliminated 10th.

My actual results are that in over 300 events I have placed 10th twice, which is 0.7%.

I personally don't see that doubling your stack early on justifies taking the risk of going out early on. I make the top 3 and prize money about 50% of the time (winning 20%) and rarely go into the top 5 as chip leader. Winning money is 80% about the endgame.

 

[steeser]

I think people are missing the point. If you are one of the best players in a 10 or 20 player sit'n'go and it is one of the early hands and someone goes all-in pre flop, you can be 90% confident that player is a clueless maniac.

Unless I get dealt trash hands for the next hour, I am 90% to 95% favourite to steadily drain that player of chips if he or she sticks around long enough, and by taking less risk. Doubling up in the early stages simply does not give you that much of an edge, all the action takes place when the blinds are much bigger and there's only 3 or 4 players left. What you really want is 3 or 4 good hands in the early stages where you risk about 500 chips on each and steadily build your stack without risking elimination.

I'd compare it to a golf tournament. In the early stages no prizes are handed out, the name of the game is survival. You can ensure that you will not win the event in rounds 1 and 2 but no-one can ensure they will win it.

In a cash game it is a no brainer, you are all-in against anyone with AA pre-flop if that is the way the opponent wants it.

You are drastically over-estimating your edge over the other players. Unless you are playing against infants (I know online players sometimes tend to play that way), you are never more than an 80% favorite over somebody. Take your AA and run with it.

I think this is my last word on the subject, I hope I run into you guys who are willing to fold AA pre-flop against me, because you will be totally run over.

 

[bigplay]

AA is never an all-in hand in a tourney to me unless I am short stacked. It is a raise of 2.5 to 4 times the BB and no more than that.

AA is 35% or so likely to win against 9 random hands, and 80% or better against any one hand. If you get 9 callers that is fine, you've put in 10% of the chips with a 35% chance of winning the hand which is a huge edge you will never see on any sports bet.

If it is early in a tournament and I raise with AA pre-flop and someone goes all-in then I fold. Here's why:

1. On average I am the best or second-best player at the table.
2. In my last 300 10 player SnGs I hve been 10th twice.
3. On average someone going all-in early on against a raise is a loose aggressive maniac who will either bust out early or lose his chips steadily to me if he sticks around until the last 3 or 4 players.

Once the flop arrives you need to be very careful with AA especially if you have a tight image. If someone whose game I respect raises my flop bet or if the flop is highly textured and I get more than 2 callers, I will tend to think that I am drawing to the board pairing as a minimum or perhaps to a third A if there are no flush or straight draws out there.

If someone wants to check & call to the river against my AA and it turns out they were slow playing a set or they hit the river to beat me, then so be it. Unless I am short stacked I want to have at least half my stack left at the end of the hand whatever happens, so if I am leading the betting throughout then I plan my stakes accordingly.

I never fall in love with AA or KK or QQ and they are all very profitable for me.

game starts at noon come on down