3 young soldiers from my state killed in IRAQ in the past week

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You guys are right we should have left Saddam in power and ignored the whole damn thing. Now look at us fighting terroist in Iraq....what were we thinking we should have waited for them to get into California.
you really are foolish if you think your administration's actions are helping reduce terrorism or Islamic Extremism in the world. You are creating more.... You have a Tree which is growing & growing.... every time you cut off a branch or a leaf.... several more grow to replace it.

If you want to solve the problem you must go to the ROOT of this tree, it is only then that progress will be made....

US administration had a perfect chance to extend an olive branch by attending Arafat's funeral in CAIRO. Chose not too. Us administration can stop codling ISRAEL & force them into peace projects... They dont....

start at the ROOT of the tree.... stop trying to clip the branches...
 

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CUJO,

you are a perfect example of how uninformed the average American is... YES 100,000 IRAQI's have died.... & each man that has a child killed in turn becomes a terrorist & will raise all his kids to become terrorists....

The average person that voted for George Bush believes that IRAQ was behind 911...
:monkey:
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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SS,
I asked two of my 7 year-old cousins why we are at war. Independently they both said that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

It made me sick. I do not know where they would learn this -- let's hope it is not the work of the public school system. I quickly sorted the misinformation out and taught them the evil of the US war machine, but this is a battle of truth that cannot be one if the government propaganda continues.
 

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The evil of the US war machine.LOL. You people kill me. Lets all just hold hands and maybe the terroist will all of a sudden call off the jihad. Lander.........did you check with your siblings regarding your cousins?....or do you believe that lib BS about it takes a village. The evils of war....the war machine...waaah-waah ........and NONE of you can figure out how Bush got re elected ..........I ask myself which is this: sad or funny.
 

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SportSavant said:
you really are foolish if you think your administration's actions are helping reduce terrorism or Islamic Extremism in the world. You are creating more.... You have a Tree which is growing & growing.... every time you cut off a branch or a leaf.... several more grow to replace it.

If you want to solve the problem you must go to the ROOT of this tree, it is only then that progress will be made....

US administration had a perfect chance to extend an olive branch by attending Arafat's funeral in CAIRO. Chose not too. Us administration can stop codling ISRAEL & force them into peace projects... They dont....

start at the ROOT of the tree.... stop trying to clip the branches...
Yeah lets extend an olive branch to the lead terriost......the butcher Arafat.....good grief...THANK GOD the libs are not in power at a time of war....we would be sitting in the UN ......while the World called a time-out on the evil US War Machine.......BTW

Do you think we are fighting terroist in Iraq ....or those just lost Sunni's trying to protect the Motherland?
 

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SportSavant said:
Journey,

do you ever shed a tear for the 100'000 Iraqi's you all have killed? the families you have destroyed?

Do you think the world is safer today than it was before the invasion of IRAQ....

the average IRAQI is 58 more times likely to get killed today than they were before the Invasion of IRAQ from YOUR country....

I hope to god you did not vote for Bush....

No I did not vote for Bush....I do not think the world is safer, and I believe it was a mistake...

I wonder how this all would have unfolded if Bush #1 would have done the same thing (went after Saddam) back in 1991? It seemed much easier the first time, but I'm not sure ...It just seemed like there was so much less resistence back in 1991...
 

"I got my ass kicked by a superior BLUE state"
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SportSavant said:
CUJO,

you are a perfect example of how uninformed the average American is... YES 100,000 IRAQI's have died.... & each man that has a child killed in turn becomes a terrorist & will raise all his kids to become terrorists....

The average person that voted for George Bush believes that IRAQ was behind 911...
:monkey:

So does that mean that you're not going to refer me to a credible site that says 100,000 have been killed?

Here's one for you:

www.iraqbodycount.net/press/

It doesn't mesh with your little agenda so I doubt you'll give it much consideration. Take a look at their database, please, for your own sake.
 

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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/i...013200&en=c475eb52343abe43&ei=5070&oref=login




CASUALTIES
Study Puts Iraqi Deaths of Civilians at 100,000
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL,
International Herald Tribune

Published: October 29, 2004


ARIS, Oct. 28 - An estimated 100,000 civilians have died in Iraq as a direct or indirect consequence of the March 2003 United States-led invasion, according to a new study by a research team at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

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Coming just five days before the presidential election the finding is certain to generate intense controversy, since it is far higher than previous mortality estimates for the Iraq conflict.

Editors of The Lancet, the London-based medical publication, where an article describing the study is scheduled to appear, decided not to wait for the normal publication date next week, but to place the research online Friday, apparently so it could circulate before the election.

The Bush administration has not estimated civilian casualties from the conflict, and independent groups have put the number at most in the tens of thousands.

In the study, teams of researchers led by Dr. Les Roberts fanned out across Iraq in mid-September to interview nearly 1,000 families in 33 locations. Families were interviewed about births and deaths in the household before and after the invasion.

Although the authors acknowledge that data collection was difficult in what is effectively still a war zone, the data they managed to collect is extensive. Using what they described as the best sampling methods that could be applied under the circumstances, they found that Iraqis were 2.5 times more likely to die in the 17 months following the invasion than in the 14 months before it.

Before the invasion, the most common causes of death in Iraq were heart attacks, strokes and chronic diseases. Afterward, violent death was far ahead of all other causes.

"We were shocked at the magnitude but we're quite sure that the estimate of 100,000 is a conservative estimate," said Dr. Gilbert Burnham of the Johns Hopkins team. Dr. Burnham said the team excluded data about deaths in Falluja in making their estimate, because that city was the site of unusually intense violence.

In 15 of the 33 communities visited, residents reported violent deaths in their families since the conflict started. They attributed many of those deaths to attacks by American-led forces, mostly airstrikes, and most of those killed were women and children. The risk of violent death was 58 times higher than before the war, the researchers reported.

The team included researchers from the Johns Hopkins Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies and included doctors from Al Mustansiriya University Medical School in Baghdad.

There is bound to be skepticism about the estimate of 100,000 excess deaths, since that translates into an average of 166 deaths a day since the invasion. But some people were not surprised. "I am emotionally shocked but I have no trouble in believing that this many people have been killed," said Scott Lipscomb, an associate professor at Northwestern University, who works on the www.iraqbodycount.net project.

That project, which collates only deaths reported in the news media, currently put the maximum civilian death toll at just under 17,000. "We've always maintained that the actual count must be much higher," Mr. Lipscomb said.

The researchers said they were highly technical in their selection of interview sites and data analysis, although interview locations were limited by the decision to cut down on driving time when possible in order to reduce the risk to the interviewers. Each team included an Iraqi health worker, generally a physician.

Although the teams relied primarily on interviews with local residents, they also requested to see at least two death certificates at the end of interviews in each area, to try to ensure that people had remembered and responded honestly. The research team decided that asking for death certificates in each case, during the interviews, might cause hostility and could put the research team in danger.

Some of those killed may have been insurgents, not civilians, the authors noted. Also, the rise in deaths included a rise in murders and some deaths were caused by the decline of medical care. "But the majority of excess mortality is clearly due to violence," Dr. Burnham said.

The study is scientific, reserving judgment on the politics of the Iraq conflict. But Dr. Roberts and his colleagues are critical of the Bush administration and the Army for not releasing estimates of civilian deaths.

"This study shows that with moderate funds, four weeks and seven Iraqi team members willing to risk their lives, a useful measure of civilian deaths could be obtained," the authors wrote.
 

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