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Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Damn, you might think the registrar of voters in one of those towns might have complained or something, especially a Democratic registrar of voters in one of them there heavily democratic districts.

Tell me, how many registrar of voters were part of this Nationwide conspiracy?

How many Secretaries of State?

How many county election officials?

How many postal workers?

just wondering
 

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Pay attention! I had a thread about this months ago. You entered it and when I ask you some questions, you ran and hid like a coward. There's even a few links in this thread.

By even asking this only indicates that you might be mildly retarded. Be a fucking standup American for once.

I don't run from anything. I'm not afraid to be wrong if I am. I just require real substance before making accusations, your boys play you like a fiddle because they can. They depend on brain dead people believing their bullshit.

Maybe you should actually think something through once in a while.
 

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You know, If you think it's not fair to ask for too many specifics, I'll make it easy.

Tell us the process and how you imagined they altered it. No facts necessary, use your imagination if necessary.
 

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Here's a better idea, get the key players under oath and have them testify. If they've done nothing wrong it should be open and shut and everyone can move on to other items. However, if they've broken election laws, they should be punished. Agreed?

Nice try.

Just because you can make up creative false accusations out of thin air, doesn't give you the right to place the people you blindly hate so much under oath fishing for the slightest inconsistency in testimony. Where I come that's called "witch hunting."

We all saw what happened to Scooter Libby -- when in fact, he wasn't even the leaker and when in fact, the original leaker WASN'T EVEN CHARGED WITH THE ORIGINAL CRIME!

Here let me put it to you a different way, CAS:

Because I play my music too loud and it pisses you off, you as my neighbor call the police and claim I am a child molester. The police come to my door and ask if they can "ask me a few questions." I happen to know I'm not a child molester which means I am under no obligation to cooperate with them. Unless they have a warrant to search my property, they will be ordered to leave my property and speak to my lawyer.

Case closed -- have a nice day.

Keep chasing rainbows believing one day you'll see Karl Rove behind bars. These people are WAY too smart to be intimidated by your unsubstantiated hysteria.

:howdy:
 

There's no such thing as leftover crack
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Dam, you might think the registrar of voters in one of those towns might have complained or something, especially a Democratic registrar of voters in one of them there heavily democratic districts.

Tell me, how many registrar of voters were part of this Nationwide conspiracy?

How many Secretaries of State?

How many county election officials?

How many postal workers?

just wondering


Most or all of this information is in thread from Jan/Feb that you chose to run away and hide from.

Some of your questions aren't necessarily applicable to the scheme (some are, but I don't have specific answers for all of them).

What you should be asking is "How many voters were challenged by the GOP on election day in 2004?"

Challenging registrations as voters go to the polls is, for the most part, not illegal. Any political party is allowed to place operatives in polling stations to do this. Typically, before 2004, a challenge would occur only if someone had strong evidence that a voter shouldn't be voting. In 2004, the GOP/RNC took it to a whole new level. They were able to do this with the assistance of the newly approved Help America Vote act (HAVA). The HAVA law introduced what's called the "provisional ballot".

The "provisional" ballot was supposed to remedy the problem where a registered voter showed up at the polls and their name wasn't on the voter rolls or they were erroneously listed as ineligible to vote. This happend because in 2000, in Florida, tens of thousand of voters were erroneously purged from the voter rolls because they were listed as convicted felons. Almost none were felons, but these voters were locked out of the voting booth and there was no remedy for their vote to be counted at the time. We will skip the fact that the erroneous felon purge list was put together at the direction of Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris and was filled with likely voters for Al Gore.

What is illegal (a felony) is that you can't target a group of voters via caging lists if race is a factor in doing so.

Regarding the ridiculous question about postal workers: If some organization pays for a letter to be "returned to sender" if the adressee isn't there at the time the letter carrier tries to deliver it, the letter will be "returned to sender". The Post Office and their workers are doing their job. In 2004, in Florida, the lists that were attached to the missent emails had a total of 70,000 names on them (and that's just Florida). These names represented a returned letter for each. Think about how many were actually delivered and the cost to do this in one state. You can pretty much guarantee this wasn't the only state where they did this.

On election day, the RNC/GOP sent out their operatives all around the country to challenge voters who weren't around to receive the "return to sender" mail. The challenges were done on the basis that there was evidence that the voter did not live at the address on their registration. These voters were then given a "provisional" ballot. Basically, a second class ballot that may or may not get added to the count.

As for the question "How many voters were challenged by the GOP/RNC on election day 2004?": The answer is "over 3 million" (and that doesn't include absentee ballots). In case you are skeptical, these number are factual. Over 1 million of the 3 million+ that were challenged had their vote discarded and not counted. Most of these were for minor technicalities and up to the discretion of the Secretary of State.
 

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Somebody does not want this to pass, who could that be?




MO 2008 H 2541: Voter Caging Prohibition Act; Election Challengers




Status: Failed-Adjourned

about:
This bill amends election law to prohibit the challenging of a voter's eligibility based on a "voter caging document, " "unverified match list," or an error in a person's voter registration application that does not directly affect that person's eligibility to vote. Under this bill, election challenges can only be made under the following provisions
-The challenger is a registered voter in the precinct where the challenge is made
-The challenge is supported by first-hand knowledge regarding the grounds for the voter registrant or voter's ineligibility
-The challenge is in writing
-The challenger attests under penalty of perjury that the challenged is ineligible to register or vote
The bill also outlines the procedure for submitting formal challenges:
-The formal challenge must be filed with the secretary of state at least 30 days before an election
-The secretary of state would send a notice by mail to the the applicant/voter with eligibility in question. The notice must be published at least 21 days before an election in a periodical. Finally, the secretary of state must hold a public hearing at least 14 days before an election where the challenger appears and presents convincing evidence that the challenged is ineligible to register or vote. If the challenger fails to appear, the challenge will be dismissed.
-If any challenge is resolved by an election authority against the voter, he or she would be entitled to vote provisionally.
If a person knowingly challenges one or more voters with the intent that the voter be disqualified, the challenger would be guilty of a class one election offense for each violation.

History: Introduced on April 1, 2008; Read a second time on April 2, 2008; To House committee on Elections on May 16, 2008.
 

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And these challenges were politically biased and allowed by the Secretaries of State throughout the country?

I don't post much January through April, sorry you think I was somehow hiding.
 

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Obama's 16 month scenario which he flip-flopped on and then was forced back to by Moveon.org and like radical left wing organizations is recipe for disaster.
The greatest foreign policy president in my lifetime made almost no mistakes. He and Kissinger in their prime were supreme! If Nixon made one possible mistake it was his "68 promise to bring all combat troops home. It was a political mistake but he thought he could make it work. He kept supply and embassy personnel their and financed the Vietnamization of the war and it was a disaster in the end. If Nixon was still president instead of Ford during the disastrous end episode it would have ended better.
All should learn from history. Half way measures for political reasons may look good in the abstract but rarely if ever work in the long run.

If The Media Isn't Too Busy...

by BarbinMD

Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:20:27 PM PDT

There has been a lot of attention paid to John McCain’s apparent flip-flop yesterday on timetables for withdrawal from Iraq, and given his frequent attacks on Barack Obama’s call for a 16 month timetable (or if you prefer, horizon), McCain’s words were rather stunning:
BLITZER: So why do you think he said that 16 months is basically a pretty good timetable?
McCAIN: He said it’s a pretty good timetable based on conditions on the ground. I think it’s a pretty good timetable, as we should — or horizons for withdrawal. But they have to be based on conditions on the ground.
But why don't we just add this to his ever growing list of flip-flops since McCain will dismiss any questions on this about-face and the media will go along with whatever he says because he is the foreign policy expert (despite his confusion or outright lies about his past statements on the war, Sunnis, Shiites, Iran and the Anbar Awakening). But since McCain has spent the past week whining about the press, perhaps the media could oblige him with some primetime coverage and ask him to clarify a couple of other comments he made during yesterday’s interview. None that would call into question his foreign policy expertise, of course. After all, he was a P.O.W. nearly 40 years ago. But just to have him clear up a couple of points he made. For instance, at McCain said:
I can only tell you, I will not discuss hypotheticals and I can’t.
But earlier in the day, McCain went über-hypothetical while imagining a world without the surge:
The Iraqi Army would have collapsed. Civilian casualties would have increased dramatically," he said. "Al Qaeda would have killed the Sunni sheikhs who had begun to cooperate with us, and the "Sunni Awakening" would have been strangled at birth. Al Qaeda fighters would have safe havens, from where they could train Iraqis and foreigners, and turn Iraq into a base for launching attacks on Americans elsewhere. Civil war, genocide and wider conflict would have been likely.
Perhaps the media can ask him why he will not, cannot talk about hypotheticals when it comes to foreign policy questions that concern all Americans, but he can describe a hypothetical scenario of the Middle East engulfed in flames if he thinks it helps him politically. And heck, maybe ask him what "victory" in Iraq means...hypothetically. After all, McCain keeps saying "we’re on the road to victory," so it would be nice to know if he knew where the hell that road is. And while they’re on the subject of Iraq, maybe they could have him clarify that whole birth of the secret surge thing.
And speaking of secrets, what I think all Americans would really be interested in is the secret, guaranteed plan to capture Osama Bin Laden that McCain mentioned to Blitzer yesterday.
BLITZER: You're President of the United States, you vowed that you will capture Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice. Now we know that President Bush, since 9/11, has been doing the best he can. What would you do different?
MCCAIN: Well, I'm not going to telegraph a lot of the things that I'm going to do because then it might compromise our ability to do so. But look, I know the area, I've been there, I know wars, I know how to win wars, and I know how to improve our capabilities so we will capture Osama Bin Laden, or put it this way, bring him to justice. We will do it, I know how to do it. [...]
It might be a good thing to reveal to the world the enormity of this guy’s crimes and his intentions which are still there and he’s working night and day to destroy everything we stand for and believe in
Leaving aside the fact that besides World War II, John McCain has never seen a war won, can the media ask him why he is keeping his sure-fire plan to capture Osama Bin Laden a secret? And perhaps more importantly, why he hasn’t shared the details with anyone over the past 7 years? He knows that Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11, he says Bin Laden is actively seeking to destroy us every single day, and he won’t reveal his plan unless he’s elected? Why, that almost seems like a terrorist threat. And if Bin Laden launches a successful attack against the U.S., can we hold John McCain responsible since he could have captured him but refused to do so? That's a discussion that I'd like to see airing from coast to coast.
John McCain wants more media coverage, so by all means, bring it on.
 

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And these challenges were politically biased and allowed by the Secretaries of State throughout the country?

I hope this helps you understand how things work. I imagine election laws have lot of fine print and hard to notice inticacies. Someone at the RNC came up with the whole scheme. For that, there brainpower cannot be underestimated.

As the law currently allows, operatives of any party are allowed to be present in any precinct across the country and challenge voters. Prior to 2004, challenging a voter and their registration was a rare occurence. When a voter is "challenged" at a polling station, that voter is then given a "provisional" ballot. The "provisional" ballot is then set aside. Before the count is certified by a given state, these ballots are examined by the office of the Secretary of State, where each one is either accepted and added to the count, or rejected. As stated, In 2004 there were over 3 million challenges by RNC/GOP operatives nationwide and as a result over 3 million "provisional" ballots were handed out. In the end, over 1 million of these were tossed and not added to the count. In most cases, ballots were rejected on the flimsiest of technicalities and typically in states were the decision makers were favorable to the Bush/Cheney ticket.

A fair question is, "How did the operatives know who to challenge?"

When the congressional black caucus got their wish for a remedy to the 2000felon purge list that denied the voting right of thousands of African-Americans in Florida, they thought the worst case scenario might be 100,000 "provisional" ballots in 2008. They never dreamed it could be over 3 million.

I don't post much January through April, sorry you think I was somehow hiding.

On Jan 27 at 11:56AM you posted in my thread. About 35 minutes later I responded and posed a simple question. You never answered it or posted in that thread again. That thread consistently stayed on the first page for about 10 days. It's my recollection that you participated in other threads later that day and in the days that followed. It's not conclusive evidence that you were avoiding the question, but it's compelling.

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=555659&highlight=buffalo+soldiers
 

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Nice try.

Just because you can make up creative false accusations out of thin air, doesn't give you the right to place the people you blindly hate so much under oath fishing for the slightest inconsistency in testimony. Where I come that's called "witch hunting."

<SNIP>

Keep chasing rainbows believing one day you'll see Karl Rove behind bars. These people are WAY too smart to be intimidated by your unsubstantiated hysteria.

Joe,

As I recall, you were an avid Fred Thompson supporter. When Tim Griffin resigned his position as Interim U.S. Attorney for Arkansas (in June 2007), his immediate plans were to go work for the Fred Thompson campaign.

For some reason, the Fred Thompson campaign told him "Thanks, but no thanks" and rejected his services. I'm curious why a fledgling campaign would reject the services of someone who was the 2004 National Research Operations Director for the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign? Afterall, didn't the Bush/Cheney ticket win that election?
 

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Shorty, after the 2000 election debacle shamelessly initiated by Al Gore, which is the single biggest reason for the partisan divide we have today, BOTH parties hired thousands of lawyers to "protect their interests" in 2004.

Now I'm not debating the fact that there significantly more challenges in 2004 than in any other year, I'm telling you this was not a single party issue.

Is there so much as ONE Secretary of State from any one of the 50 states taking up your cause?

Quite frankly, you've provided accusations, not facts.

And what is with this running from you bullshit already? I'm here, ain't I? What the fuck does that mean now? Did you forget what you think or something? :lol:
 

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Joe,

As I recall, you were an avid Fred Thompson supporter. When Tim Griffin resigned his position as Interim U.S. Attorney for Arkansas (in June 2007), his immediate plans were to go work for the Fred Thompson campaign.

For some reason, the Fred Thompson campaign told him "Thanks, but no thanks" and rejected his services. I'm curious why a fledgling campaign would reject the services of someone who was the 2004 National Research Operations Director for the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign? Afterall, didn't the Bush/Cheney ticket win that election?


Joe - If you are having difficulty answering, maybe this 20 second video can help.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tp1TGBFtgEI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tp1TGBFtgEI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 

Militant Birther
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Joe - If you are having difficulty answering, maybe this 20 second video can help.

<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tp1TGBFtgEI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

:lolBIG:

cas, the answer is POLITICS.

Guilty or not, Fred Thompson didn't want this type of controversy hanging over his campaign.

How'd I do?
 

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Shorty, after the 2000 election debacle shamelessly initiated by Al Gore, which is the single biggest reason for the partisan divide we have today, BOTH parties hired thousands of lawyers to "protect their interests" in 2004.

This is irrelevant to the issue of what caused the creation of the Help America Vote Act and the introduction of the "provisional" ballot. I posted information regarding the origins of the "provisional" ballot and it has absolutely nothing to with any litigation from the 2000 election. It had to do with the fact that legal voters were stricken from the roles (erroneously identified as felons) and prevented from voting. The "provisional" ballot was thought to remedy the situation. It's necessary to understand the role that the "provisional" played in the voter caging scheme to supress over 1 million votes. Without the "provisional" ballot, the voter caging aspect of the scheme would probably backfire.

Now I'm not debating the fact that there significantly more challenges in 2004 than in any other year, I'm telling you this was not a single party issue..

The issue we are talking about is voter caging, "challenges", and "provisional" ballots. As far as I know, only one party engaged in voter caging in 2004 and only 1 party had operatives stationed throughout the country to issue mass challenges of voters (presumably based on caging lists). I don't believe there were any challenges of voters from Democrats. I think that's what you are insinuating in the paragraph above.

Is there so much as ONE Secretary of State from any one of the 50 states taking up your cause?

What is my cause? My objective is giving people information that they should know. There's way too many in this country that have no idea that this happened (along with the cat & mouse game being played with the DOJ, the House Judiciary committee, and subpoenaed witnesses).

As for Secretary of State's, I'm not sure what you expect them to do. Almost all of them had no knowledge of the voter caging operation until long after the fact. Their job was to count the vote and administer decisions on "provisional" ballots. The only Secretary of State's that were aware of the voter caging operation were those who were on the email lists from Tim Griffin and the RNC. In other words, they would've had to be in on it. I'd be willing to wager that Ken Blackwell got emails regarding caging lists. Not because he was Secretary of State for Ohio, but because he was the State Chairman of the Bush/Cheney campaign in Ohio. In addition, any crimes associated with voter caging are a violation of "FEDERAL" election laws. A state officer wouldn't have any jurisdiction.

I'm having a difficult time trying to recognize why you think the actions of a Secretary of State are important regarding this.

Quite frankly, you've provided accusations, not facts.

I think your assessment is incorrect, but I'm not surprised that's how you see it. I think you may be in denial. There facts are aplenty, you just fail to acknowledge them.

And what is with this running from you bullshit already? I'm here, ain't I? What the fuck does that mean now? Did you forget what you think or something? :lol:

My most recent post on that matter was to provide the evidence that I used to reach that conclusion. I guess it's possible that I reached the wrong conclusion (about you running, not about the RNC voter caging tactics).
 

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:lolBIG:

cas, the answer is POLITICS.

Guilty or not, Fred Thompson didn't want this type of controversy hanging over his campaign.

How'd I do?

"Guilty or not"? Try "guilty". I know you won't admit that, because it's "politics". For me, unlike you, it's about decency and democracy.
 

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Nevada 2004
In Clark County Nevada, the former state Republican Party executive director, Dan Burdish, attempted to cage 17,000 voters weeks prior to the 2004 election. The voters had been put on an “inactive” list when mail sent to their addresses was returned.
The Las Vegas Review Journal reported, “Burdish said he only targeted Democratic voters because ‘I'm a partisan Republican, I admit it.”[12]
Local election administrators objected to the challenge, including Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax. As reported by the Review Journal, “Lomax said he can see no legitimate reason why Burdish would challenge the voters. ‘The law already tells us what to do with inactive voters,’ Lomax said. ‘The law provides a remedy for these people, and I'd guess that the only point in a challenge would be an attempt to intimidate voters.’”[13]
 

Militant Birther
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"Guilty or not"? Try "guilty". I know you won't admit that, because it's "politics". For me, unlike you, it's about decency and democracy.

Sure, in your eyes he's guilty -- and your proof is? Don't give me this crap when you already conceded the evidence "doesn't constitute ironclad proof." (Where have we heard THAT before?)

You just don't want voter IDs so your parakeet and your dead cousin can vote Democrat so they can pander to their wide range of permanent victim-classes: steal from the productive and redistribute to the idle.

For Democrats it always comes to down to POWER -- and there is no sewer they won't crawl into to achieve it.
 

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CAS, I'm from the school of thought that if this nationwide voter suppression occurred, there would have been a serious investigation by the Democrats and / or law enforcement officials.

Obviously, to succeed, such a plan would have to involve local politicians, and literally thousands would have received there emails. All of them are silenced.

All the Secretaries of State were either hoodwinked by this administration (they pull this off so often, they're either brilliant or the Democrats are stupid), or they simply don't see any wrongdoing. Even the thousands of Democratic attorneys hired to monitor the 2004 election were asleep at the wheel.

To believe your unsubstantiated charges, you would have to be in a "suspension of disbelief". I just don't think your arguments hold water, "but I'm not surprised you don't see this".

Does anybody else know about this? Why don't you tell somebody and break this case wide open?
 

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Sure, in your eyes he's guilty -- and your proof is? Don't give me this crap when you already conceded the evidence "isn't iron clad." (Where have we heard THAT before?)

Thanks for taking me out of context. As I stated for Romanowski, what I posted earlier doesn't constitute iron clad proof. That is not the same as there isn't iron clad proof (which there is).

Are you capable of noting the distinction?

You just want your parakeet and your dead cousin to vote so Democrats can pander to their wide range of permanent victim-classes: steal from the productive and redistribute to the idle.

For Democrats it always comes to down to POWER -- and there is no sewer they won't crawl to achieve it.

I think this is about the time Barman makes some remark about you being on or off your meds (I forget which one it is). What the fuck are you babbling about?

By the way, I'm a registered independent, beholden to no party.
 

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