I have no doubts that Michigan's offense will be much improved this year. With just 5 starters back, I doubt their defense will. Tell you the truth, I expected nothing out of Michigan last year. The change was just too drastic from what they've had in place there. But I'm sure this Forcier kid will work out. I mentioned Pat White and Vince Young, not so much for their passing abilites, but their ability to ablib on the fly. When a QB is able to do that in this particular offense, it adds another diminsion that makes it very hard to stop. That's why I have my doubts about WV this year now that Pat White is gone. He just about single-handidly won their bowl game for them, like he did many others.
I love your UM comments and I completely agree. This is the one team in this conference that intrigues me the most. We've talked about teams converting to spread and in the first yr it is always brutal, but things get better and sometimes quicker than people anticipate.
I've given some thoughts on another thread re. Forcier. I followed his progress through most of his JR and SR hs years. I think he is one hell of a talent and in the right offense will be quite a weapon. (This is the right offense) Like in HS he is very poised and has excellent passing mechanics and accuracy.
good write up
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I've given some thoughts on another thread re. Forcier. I followed his progress through most of his JR and SR hs years. I think he is one hell of a talent and in the right offense will be quite a weapon. (This is the right offense) Like in HS he is very poised and has excellent passing mechanics and accuracy.
good write up
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Thanks, Ducks . . . . I read an article that talked about how even though Rodriguez wanted Terelle Pryor, Forcier really fits into his system better. For these coaches that have their own systems like Rodriguez and Leach, recruiting the players that fit their systems is much more important than recruiting players just because all the other colleges want them.
I noticed where Bruce Feldman had both Forcier and Robinson as two QB players that could make an impact this year. Robinson is the speedster with blazing speed. These two could make for a good 2 punch combination, however, personally I have never liked 2 quarterback systems.
Pryor had originally committed to WV but backed away once he left. Everyone in the country who plays spread wanted a piece of pryor. He is so athletic. The thing is he needs serious work on his passing game. It was pathetic last yr. I will be very interested to see how well he is coached up.
Can you show me anything that said Pyor committed to WVU before R-Rod left? I never heard that....secondly, Pryor led the Big Ten in passing efficiency, so his passing wasn't exactly THAT bad....Tressel has a tendency to "protect" his young talent (i. e. Pryor) in order to limit their mistakes...
I cannot. In fact I recalled that from a post on the scout network at the time, it may have been one of their recruiting analysts who may have been stating his opinion and not a public commitment. Either way it was a non issue once Rodriguez left. He can improve, but as it stands right now he is at best an average passer.
Michigan's Wermers transfers, rips RichRod's staff
July 16, 2009 9:30 AM
Posted by ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg
For the second straight year, a Michigan offensive lineman is transferring, and not before firing a few parting shots toward head coach Rich Rodriguez and his assistants.
Kurt Wermers' words weren't as pointed as those of Justin Boren in 2008, but he made similar statements about the changes in the Michigan program as he prepares to join Ball State. Wermers was initially recruited by Lloyd Carr's staff but never played for Carr.
"I really didn't get along with the new coaches," Wermers told The Times of Northwest Indiana. "They were bringing in a lot of different kids that were not my kind of crowd. Coach Carr's staff was a whole different ballgame. It was like a family. But when Rodriguez came in it was a whole different feeling. It was more of a business.
"I figured I'd get out while I could."
Wermers' departure comes on the heels of offensive lineman Dann O'Neil transferring to Western Michigan. The program has lost a portion of players since the new staff arrived, and the offensive line has seen the most attrition.
It's clear that Rodriguez's methods don't work for everybody, and that's fine. But it's interesting to see all the departures on the offensive line, a position that demands toughness and, in the spread option offense, an improved conditioning level.
This is big-boy football with big-money stakes, and some of the best coaches are the nastiest toward their offensive linemen. Plus, the offensive lines who are pushed the hardest often perform the best.
But then there's Boren, a player who, by all accounts, brought a much needed edge to Ohio State's offensive line after transferring from Michigan. He doesn't seem like the type of player who needs to get meaner.
In the big picture, Wermers isn't a major loss, but his comments could momentarily fuel the hate toward Rodriguez and his staff.
I wanted to add some thoughts about this. In today's NCAA FBS football, the offensive linemen are expected to be more athletic than they have ever been in the past. In today's FBS, the "spread" and option games rule the offensive scene. These schemes demand the offensive linemen to have to move faster "side to side" as they stop quicker defensive linemen on the pass rush. In the old days, especially for Lloyd Carr's old ball teams, most of what an offensive lineman could be expected to do is simply run block. They could get by on bulk and strength with these type of pro-style schemes. Condition was not a premium as long as they got their job done in moving the line men back enough to give the RB a hole that he could get 4 or 5 yards out of. But, with today's blocking assignments on spreads and a lot more passing plays, "big and bulky" just will not work. Linemen have to be in better shape and they have to be quicker on their feet.
These guys that leave programs and then gripe about the programs they left are just a bunch of babies that couldn't do the work in my opinion. The Oklahoma Sooners have had their share disgruntled offensive linemen leave over the years as well, and it is always about the fact that they don't like to work as hard as they are required to do these days. So, a lot of them go to lesser programs where the coaches will baby them and not push them as hard.
Guys with attitudes like these can be a cancer to the team, so I always tend to look at incidents like this as a positive. RR is in the process of recruiting linemen to fit his system and this guy was recruited by Lloyd Carr, not RR.
July 16, 2009 9:30 AM
Posted by ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg
For the second straight year, a Michigan offensive lineman is transferring, and not before firing a few parting shots toward head coach Rich Rodriguez and his assistants.
Kurt Wermers' words weren't as pointed as those of Justin Boren in 2008, but he made similar statements about the changes in the Michigan program as he prepares to join Ball State. Wermers was initially recruited by Lloyd Carr's staff but never played for Carr.
"I really didn't get along with the new coaches," Wermers told The Times of Northwest Indiana. "They were bringing in a lot of different kids that were not my kind of crowd. Coach Carr's staff was a whole different ballgame. It was like a family. But when Rodriguez came in it was a whole different feeling. It was more of a business.
"I figured I'd get out while I could."
Wermers' departure comes on the heels of offensive lineman Dann O'Neil transferring to Western Michigan. The program has lost a portion of players since the new staff arrived, and the offensive line has seen the most attrition.
It's clear that Rodriguez's methods don't work for everybody, and that's fine. But it's interesting to see all the departures on the offensive line, a position that demands toughness and, in the spread option offense, an improved conditioning level.
This is big-boy football with big-money stakes, and some of the best coaches are the nastiest toward their offensive linemen. Plus, the offensive lines who are pushed the hardest often perform the best.
But then there's Boren, a player who, by all accounts, brought a much needed edge to Ohio State's offensive line after transferring from Michigan. He doesn't seem like the type of player who needs to get meaner.
In the big picture, Wermers isn't a major loss, but his comments could momentarily fuel the hate toward Rodriguez and his staff.
I wanted to add some thoughts about this. In today's NCAA FBS football, the offensive linemen are expected to be more athletic than they have ever been in the past. In today's FBS, the "spread" and option games rule the offensive scene. These schemes demand the offensive linemen to have to move faster "side to side" as they stop quicker defensive linemen on the pass rush. In the old days, especially for Lloyd Carr's old ball teams, most of what an offensive lineman could be expected to do is simply run block. They could get by on bulk and strength with these type of pro-style schemes. Condition was not a premium as long as they got their job done in moving the line men back enough to give the RB a hole that he could get 4 or 5 yards out of. But, with today's blocking assignments on spreads and a lot more passing plays, "big and bulky" just will not work. Linemen have to be in better shape and they have to be quicker on their feet.
These guys that leave programs and then gripe about the programs they left are just a bunch of babies that couldn't do the work in my opinion. The Oklahoma Sooners have had their share disgruntled offensive linemen leave over the years as well, and it is always about the fact that they don't like to work as hard as they are required to do these days. So, a lot of them go to lesser programs where the coaches will baby them and not push them as hard.
Guys with attitudes like these can be a cancer to the team, so I always tend to look at incidents like this as a positive. RR is in the process of recruiting linemen to fit his system and this guy was recruited by Lloyd Carr, not RR.
Yeah it's kind of funny these guys can't come up with any specific reason. "They weren't my crowd" or "it was more of a family with Carr". These are vague statements because he didn't want to sound like a pussy saying "it was too hard what RR wants me to do". Carr brought in top 10 recruiting classes year after year and once he really started with his own players, the program went to very mediocre for Michigan standards.
Not saying RR is doing better because that has yet to be seen but I think they made the right move firing Carr. Loosing to App St. when your pre-season top 5 in the country, then getting embarressed by Oregon at home shortly after, there's just no excuse for that when you have that many NFL draft picks on your roster.
Not saying RR is doing better because that has yet to be seen but I think they made the right move firing Carr. Loosing to App St. when your pre-season top 5 in the country, then getting embarressed by Oregon at home shortly after, there's just no excuse for that when you have that many NFL draft picks on your roster.
The problem with this is that the wrong ideas are planted in the players heads. RR is fighting to save his tail in MIchigan, and has an uphill battle. This just makes himmore defensive. He has a "my way or the highway" attitude which is generally disliked at Michigan, and failed miserably last season.
RR is not Pete Carroll or Mack Brown. He looks at this as a business, not fun. This is why Carroll and Brown are NC winnersand RR willnever make it that far. His coaching abilities are very good, but he is a horses a**. Eventually, this will cost him his job at Michigan, as alum's not satisfied with him will look for any reason to get rid of him. I know several Michigan alums and fans who want Ron English as their HC. They think he is a "Michigan" man, whatever that is.
RR is not Pete Carroll or Mack Brown. He looks at this as a business, not fun. This is why Carroll and Brown are NC winnersand RR willnever make it that far. His coaching abilities are very good, but he is a horses a**. Eventually, this will cost him his job at Michigan, as alum's not satisfied with him will look for any reason to get rid of him. I know several Michigan alums and fans who want Ron English as their HC. They think he is a "Michigan" man, whatever that is.
I tend to agree. In Mack Brown's case, the alums had the good sense to know that in the early 2000's when Texas lost to OU 5 years in a row, this guy was still a decent coach. They had to ask themselves, what holds more weight, Mack Brown losing to OU, or winning the rest of his games and going 11-1 or 10-2 every year. Eventually he got OU figured out and won a NC. All because in general Mack Brown is a good guy and not an abrasive figure, and the alums gave him a chance.. In RR's case, I think this guy is a little like Saban at Bama. He's a horses ass, but a great coach. The difference is, RR is a coach who better win and have good seasons along with beating Ohio State or he'll be out in 3 or 4 years. If you don't have the alums on your side, then you better win a hell of a lot of games.
I do remember listening to Pat White being interviewed after RR left and he mentioned that the environment was a lot more enjoyable at practice and there was "a lot less cussing". You guys are right in saying DickRod is an ass. He only knows one way to get results and that's by being a slave driver. There aren't too many Pete Carrols or Mack Browns out there, that's for sure. Some coaches try to be like them but are too nice and don't always see the results i.e. Bill Stewart, Ron Zook
Thanks. I appreciate it. You know, when I read the post about the WVU committment, I wasn't suprised exactly. But hey, at this point, whatever.
As for Pryor, I still don't think we got an accurate assessment of his ability last season. His WR's will be much better this season IMO. Robiskie and Hartline were both nice players, but possession receivers at their best. As for this season's corp group, guys like Posey, Thomas, Small and Washington are blazers. They can run. Now whether they can catch or not remains to be seen, but they can run nonetheless. I expect Tress to keep it a little further away from the vest this season (no pun intended) for everyone to see if TP is the real deal or not.
Les Miles will be the next coach at UM. It was practically a done deal a couple of years back, however it was obvious it was in Miles best interest to stay at LSU for the short term at the time.
As for Rich-Rod, he is an idiot. I agree with him to some extent that CFB is a business. Whenever teams make it to a BCS game, the money is too rich for it not to be a business. But a lot has changed since I played in the mid-to-late 90's (not a UM thank god!) I don't just mean between the trenches either...
TP made some throws in the spring game that no way did I see him make or have the ability to make last year. I will go out on a limb and say he will show good improvement in the throwing catagory this year. I also think Small and Washington could be household names by the end of the year. Some people think Pryor will have to do it on his own this year but I don't think that will be the case. Last year was a huge success when looking at Pryor. The O-line played real bad early and not much better the rest of the season, he was converted to starter too early, Wells was out of the line-up half the time, and he still had a successful year.
Pryor never commited to WV. But he liked WV and once said that he hoped Ohio State and WV made the BCS title game. And WV was one of the 5 schools that were on his radar at the time. It kind of makes you wonder what his decision would have been if WV had beaten Pitt in their last game of the 2007 season and made the title game and RR would have stayed at WV. If not for those circumstances I'm betting that Pryor would be playing for WV right now because he would have fit much better into their system than OSU's.
